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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jackie |
Posted - 30 November 2010 : 13:32:06
Ref the new rules on 1st Dec. We went br Dec last yr and have bought our bi back(with parents help). We had no disp income, and for the past 3 plus mths my hubby has gone from 5 nights to 3 sometimes less as work is slow. Our car has been broken for 3wks and we have no money to fix it. Do you think the or will have us comply with the new rules? We had di of £77. Im really honestly gutted that we made our decisions April last yr to buy the bi back and now it looks like we will have a further 3yrs(for the sake of 2 weeks til ad) Our house is damp and we have no chance of sorting it. The folks up the rd on all those lovely benefits, Spain twice a yr and with there mobility cars and lovely done up council houses! We had 2 nights in Bognor in 2008 and have had a coop acc for 2 yrs with no prob, chase work and looking at struggling for the next 3yrs. Really wish I knew about this last yr...I would never of agreed to bi and be living it up with the rest............Could cry! |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bigal4787 |
Posted - 15 December 2010 : 00:36:32
Hi,
as you will have seen from these posts, how I&E gets assessed is purely down to who your examiner is, some examiners (including me when I was) will allow for £60 - 80 per month for a holiday in your I&E, some won't, but as most examiners are now career civil servants they are going to be more ruthless with their interpretation of the rules, but in my case I will claim, and if refused will not sign any agreement, I'll let the court decide, and also whether the OR will want to incur costs against the bankruptcy estate,just to get a small IPA.
Also as Jane said,be prepared to provide documentation, and if something is not being allowed which reasonably should be, you have to contest it, as they will expect you just to roll over and sign as up until that point you are in a vulnerable situation.
Big Al
Insolvency examiner with the Insolvency service from April 2008 - July 2010.
If you need help completing SOA's(statement of affairs) or PIQ's(preliminary information questionnaire) if you've been declared bankrupt, or anything else and you're within 30 miles or so of Warrington, then please contact me via my contact details in the expert page for futher details"
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| inapickle |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 16:59:18
Thank you debtinfo - I've got my head around it now.
Lucy x |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 16:23:12
although i should add that it is a little mean |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 16:18:57
The holiday thing, I would note that the guideline says that they MAY allow it not that they MUST allow it, a small point but as with everything, the OR doesent have to do or allow anything unless a judge tells them to |
| Skippy |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 13:46:25
Playing devil's advocate, maybe it's not a bad thing to have to produce proof of expenditure. Unfortunately this has been brought about by people claiming for expenditure they actually have.
I'm not saying anyone on here has done / would do that but I have seen it encouraged.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/
Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realise that we cannot eat money.
Last IPA payment made on 28th June 2010 - it's over at last! |
| Jane.l |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 12:21:51
Fair enough, my bankruptcy was 3 years ago now, but our OR was very strict. We had to send all our bills, receipts, pet insurance policies in to justify our I&E, (it was not extravagent at all IMO) and he said definitely NO holiday. Was also told that optician costs and house insurance were not being allowed, this point we fought them on, as it goes against all their guidelines and they did relent in the end, but that was the most stressful part of our bankruptcies, we had £20 surplus and they wanted IPA of £50. Just be prepared to send in all documentation of your outgoings if asked |
| Bigal4787 |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 11:51:04
Hi nomoreplastic,
attached is the relevant paragraph from the technical manual concerning holidays:
31.7.26 Holidays
Previous guidance stated that an allowance for holidays should not be included in the calculation of funds available for an income payments contribution, other than in exceptional circumstances, for example where a dependant was sick or disabled. Whilst extravagance is not endorsed in this respect, it may be considered a reasonable domestic need to allow the bankrupt and his/her family to benefit from a non-extravagant holiday as a break from routine. Expensive or luxury holidays (particularly if the holiday is abroad) are likely to cause offence to creditors but an allowance of between £60-£80 per month (amounting to £720-£960 per annum) for a household of 4 people should allow the bankrupt and his/her family sufficient funds to take a moderate annual holiday. Should the bankrupt consider this allowance insufficient to fund a holiday, he/she should be informed that any additional holiday cost that he/she may wish to incur must be funded from the amount of surplus income left with him/her after deduction of the assessed IPA/IPO contribution.
As can be seen, at one time an allowance for a holiday would not have been considered, but as it says here:
Whilst extravagance is not endorsed in this respect, it may be considered a reasonable domestic need to allow the bankrupt and his/her family to benefit from a non-extravagant holiday as a break from routine.
This is the technical manual that examiners(the one who assesses your I&E)use for guidance, if the basic cost of a holiday has been rejected, then the examiner has blatantly ignored their own guidelines.
I know the IS is desperate to raise more in fee income, but they still have to go by their own manual which states that an allowance towards a basic holiday is considered a reasonable domestic expenditure.
Big Al
Insolvency examiner with the Insolvency service from April 2008 - July 2010.
If you need help completing SOA's(statement of affairs) or PIQ's(preliminary information questionnaire) if you've been declared bankrupt, or anything else and you're within 30 miles or so of Warrington, then please contact me via my contact details in the expert page for futher details"
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| Bigal4787 |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 11:39:08
Hi debtinfo,
I haven't been able to see the document, but my old line manager definitely did say that was how they would do it, so as I did say the IS are doing their usual with offices interpreting things their own way.
Big Al
Insolvency examiner with the Insolvency service from April 2008 - July 2010.
If you need help completing SOA's(statement of affairs) or PIQ's(preliminary information questionnaire) if you've been declared bankrupt, or anything else and you're within 30 miles or so of Warrington, then please contact me via my contact details in the expert page for futher details"
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| debtinfo |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 08:39:51
Bigal, I have had sight of the document and it clearly states how the new guidelines should be applied even mentioning that people in bankruptcy that are being reassessed for ED who dont currently have an IPA will be assessed under the new rules |
| nomoreplastic |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 07:42:13
I was not allowed to claim for UK holiday, did argue the case but OR would not move on this,said has allowed £10 per person for emergencies not previously allowed, and this made the difference between IPA or no IPA using the new rules post Dec 1st. Seems the IS are now trying to get every little bit they can. Was a struggle to claim full fuel allowance that I actually use as OR wanted full details of miles to work and could I not use public transport etc
So be warned it will be a lot tighter and you will need to be able to fully justify all expenditure so do your homework before the interviews |
| Jane.l |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 06:57:04
One thing to bear in mind though, as in my case, if the holiday allowance means the difference between an IPA or no IPA, it wont be allowed |
| Bigal4787 |
Posted - 14 December 2010 : 00:49:53
The impression I get, is that the IS has not issued a diktat to all offices stating how the new IPA rules should be used, which is resulting in some offices(my old one included) using the date of bankruptcy as the relevant date, whilst some, are going by the date the IPA is signed.
When you also get different offices say allowing an £800 car to be exempt, yet another office to claim it you can see that it's similar to the postcode lottery with health care. Until the IS gets all its offices accross the board to do things the same, this is going to happen.
However the thing is if you are a family of 4 or just a couple, you can virtually make up the old first £100 not assessed, through the discretional £10 per family member allowance, and £50-60 per month towards the cost of a UK family holiday.
Big Al
Insolvency examiner with the Insolvency service from April 2008 - July 2010.
If you need help completing SOA's(statement of affairs) or PIQ's(preliminary information questionnaire) if you've been declared bankrupt, or anything else and you're within 30 miles or so of Warrington, then please contact me via my contact details in the expert page for futher details"
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| debtinfo |
Posted - 13 December 2010 : 18:33:33
It is not the date of the bankruptcy or the date of the interview that matters.
It is the date that you sign the IPA that matters
In this case this will be after the 1st Dec and so you will be on the new rules as will anyone else that is already bankrupt and doesent yet have an IPA signed |
| Skippy |
Posted - 13 December 2010 : 18:16:35
I don't think you'll have any luck saying that your interview should have been done sooner - I haven't heard of anyone having an interview the same day that they are made BR. Most people seem to have to wait a couple of weeks.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/
Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realise that we cannot eat money.
Last IPA payment made on 28th June 2010 - it's over at last! |
| tricer |
Posted - 13 December 2010 : 17:53:05
Hi Big Al,Im after some advice about the new IPA rules and what you said in your previous post about what your contact in the IS said. We went bankrupt 29th Nov, had our OR interview today and we are going to be subject to an IPA under the new 1st Dec rules. We were under the impression that it was the date of the bankruptcy order not the date of the OR interview. We are so stressed about everything now as we are left with 0 surpless. What incentive do we have now to work any overtime if the whole amount will be taken. We arent against the IPA as we got into the debt in the 1st place and accept that. We would have petitioned our bankruptcy in October if our IVA company had dealt with us properley and issued our failure cert sooner. Is it worth taking this up with our OR to see if we can be dealt with under the old rules? We could argue why wasnt the interview done sooner i.e 29th or 30th Nov. Any advice would be great. Thanks |
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