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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Claret74 |
Posted - 17 April 2011 : 23:06:27
Hi and thanks in advance for any help.
I am currently completing my Statement of Affairs and have a few questions.
Briefly my situation is this my husband and I entered an IVA a year ago and were doing ok until recently. I have just had our second child and am on maternity leave fom work on a reduced income. I am due to go back in May and will have to pay for two lots of nursery care. This will leave us approx £500 short each month. We have resigned ourselves to going bankrupt and have a court date of the 4th July. We are behind with our mortgage payments and would like to voluntarily surrender the house. Our intention is to save a bit of money (from the unpaid mortgage) each month to pay for our court fees and to secure a rental property.
* In the SOA do I enter the montly outgoing amounts that we both pay or do I simply half the amounts as we both pay an equal share? (i.e our mortgage is £975 a month and we pay it equally out of our joint account, so do I claim £975 or £487.50?) Likewise with the utility bills etc do I claim the full amount or half it?
* Are there any items that we are allowed in an IVA (amounts allowed in brackets)that are not allowed in Bankruptcy? For example I read on a forum here that emergencies(£45), smoking(£50), entertainment (£46) and sky(£20) (amongst other things) are not considered essential and therefore not allowed to be included in the outgoings section.
I have loads more questions but will stick with just these for now.
Thanks,
Clare |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 18:57:06
that may be so, but if the OP is handing over a lump sum then that is income really.
If it is for expenses the OP would be better buying the nappies etc and accounting for them in her own budget and handing over the goods with the child rather than cash |
| Niobe |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 18:45:32
Family members may well just be having money for expenses, such as food, nappies, activities. This wouldn't be classed as earnings I wouldn't have thought.
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.
Jan
xx |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 18:42:38
sorry missed that
Do you have a partner, if so you both work, the OR will only allow chilcare where there is no parent available to look after the child.
Apart from that as long as it is necessary then the OR will allow you to pay anyone who does the job.
BUT
This may present problems for your family members, the OR will normally ask them to sign a letter stating what they are doing and how much they are being paid, if they do this then they are earning, are they decarling this income to the tax man, are they legally allowed to charge for childminding etc |
| Claret74 |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 18:32:39
Thanks Debtinfo,
Thats really helpful information.
I wonder if you could take a couple of minutes to answer my last question if you dont mind?
* What sort of proof does the OR need of outgoings? I currently pay a day nursery for some childcare and some family members for the rest. We do not claim child tax credit so for the IVA it wasnt a problem that un-registered people were being paid but is this the case for BR?
Thanks in anticipation.
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| debtinfo |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 18:04:39
the IVA is an agreement between you and you creditors, you could put a flight to the moon in there as long as your creditors agreed, In bankruptcy it is the OR who decidedes what is or is not allowed, For instance they would not allow an amount for smoking as they would not condone it as part of the civil service but they would for instance allow nicotene patches if perscribed by your doctor as they would see that as necessary.
as for the others alot depends on yur individual circumstances, the OR will ask is it absolutly necessary rather than mearly convenient
so
* Meals at Work £106 (why cant you make sandwiches)
* Smoking £50 (propbably not but maybe nicotine replacement)
* Sports, Hobbies & Entertainment £46 (very probably no although they do allow for childrens school activities)
* Sundries & Emergencies £45 (yes £10pp)
* Pet Food & Insurance £ 42 (yes as long as it is reasonable)
* House Maintenance £25 (not normally)
* Hairdressing £30 (yes)
* Dental & Optical £15 (yes)
* Medicines & Prescriptions £10 (Yes)
* Pocket Money £20 (£10 each per child)(Not normally)
* Laundry & Dry Cleaning £10 (if necessary for work)
* School and Educational Expenditure £5 (yes)
* Newspapers & Magazines £5 (not normally)
the OR has guidelines but there are no rules as such the only rule is that you must be left sufficient income to live a reasonable lifestyle, people definition of reasonable vary
here is the OR's guidelines)
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch25-36/Chapter31/part7/part4/part_4.htm
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| Claret74 |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 11:32:31
Oh yes, before I forget, no Debtinfo we do not have a failure certificate yet. The creditors meeting is schedualed for the 27th April and it will be forwarded to us then. |
| Claret74 |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 11:29:50
Thank you all for replying.
Does any one know why these things are not allowed in BR but are in an IVA?
ALso are there any other things that are not allowed?
in our IVA we have allowances for:
* Meals at Work £106
* Smoking £50
* Sports, Hobbies & Entertainment £46
* Sundries & Emergencies £45
* Pet Food & Insurance £ 42
* House Maintenance £25
* Hairdressing £30
* Dental & Optical £15
* Medicines & Prescriptions £10
* Pocket Money £20 (£10 each per child)
* Laundry & Dry Cleaning £10
* School and Educational Expenditure £5
* Newspapers & Magazines £5
and I was hoping to just copy this info onto my Statement of Affairs form. However, if I am not entitled to have these allowances, are there any other's I can have instead.
Also, my outgoings exceed my incomings by approx £500 a month (hence the need for BR) and I read on a post that it is not a good idea to have a minus figure on the form. Should I take off these allowances thus reducing my outgoings on paper or should I just tell it as it is and include everything and leave it up to the OR to decide?
Lastly, what sort of proof does the OR need of outgoings? I currently pay a day nursery for some childcare and some family members for the rest. We do not claim child tax credit so for the IVA it wasnt a problem that un-registered people were being paid but is this the case for BR?
I really do appreciate the help offered here, it's such a scary thing and I so want to get it right.
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| Niobe |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 09:35:15
I'm glad I'm in an IVA then!
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.
Jan
xx |
| moodybluetwo |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 09:28:11
This may be helpful......
31.7.111 Matters to be considered regarding TV provision
Some suggested areas of enquiry to take into consideration when assessing the reasonableness or otherwise of the bankrupt’s claim for paid television and digital services are as follows:
•Does the bankrupt live in an area where TV analogue signals have already been switched off or will be switched off in the near future? On present information the aim is to complete analogue switch off across the whole of the UK by 2012.
•If the bankrupt does not have access to analogue broadcasts, does he/she have access to free digital TV via his/her TV set/equipment (e.g. Freeview or Freesat), providing free access to the standard UK TV channels?
•Where no free option is available, is the amount that is being claimed for a satellite or cable system for a basic package providing access to the standard UK TV channels, or for an enhanced package of entertainment, including the full range of sports and entertainment channels and facilities? Whilst the former can be included as a reasonable domestic need where no free options are available, the latter would usually be considered as beyond that reasonably required to meet the bankrupt’s reasonable domestic needs. The bankrupt should be advised that subscription to enhanced television services/entertainment packages must not be made at the expense of their creditors, and only the expenses of a basic cable or satellite service may be included as outgoings. Where the bankrupt is in receipt of other services in a combined package, reference should also be made to paragraph 31.7.93 regarding combined cable or satellite telephone, broadband internet and TV packages, and a decision taken as to the reasonableness of the overall cost of any combined package. |
| Niobe |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 09:18:26
I thought a basic Sky package was allowed? I know it is with an IVA.
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.
Jan
xx |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 18 April 2011 : 06:39:25
you put the full amount of any household outgoings plus any personal outgongs down.
Emergencies are allowed, £10per person in the household, Smoking, entertainment, sky are not
have you got a certificate of failure from the IVA yet |
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