| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bertie |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 05:10:41
Hi when I went bankrupt I done some thing very
stupid and did not declare some money I had given to my son 16 months prior to the bankruptcy to invest in a small house for the future as me and my husband only had a static caravan to live in it was a share in the property with my son owning 80 percent but I did not get nothing in writing and most of the deposit was paid cash apart from £500 to hold the property which I writ a cheque for to David Wilson homes the remainder of the cash can be seen coming out of my bank and going into my sons a few days later all in cash then leaving his account to go to David Wilson homes but I have no other proof this money was from selling our house five months prior but I then became I'll after looking after my mother and she sadly passed away plus a lot of other heart breaking things that had happened and I couldn't cope and ended up gambling the remainder of the money instead of paying the other debts I dis however come clean about the investment because I couldn't cope with not having told the truth the reason for this was because I was worried how it would affect my son know my worst night mares have come real and the OR and solicitors are choosing to say that I could have given my son the money or repaid a loan and that he just choose to buy a house with it and they are pursuing him for the money and not interested that it was a investment In a property even though when I told them the truth on the phone and in a letter about the money I gave to my son I told them it was a investment for our future me and my husband that is it just seems like they can except me telling them about the money but then choose to disbelieve the investment side of it can they do that and does the insiders law apply in bankruptcy in England sorry about long question thankyou jean |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bertie |
Posted - 05 September 2012 : 11:09:37
Thankyou for your help. |
| Richard P |
Posted - 05 September 2012 : 11:07:36
Hi Bertie
I appreciate the stress and upset that this has caused you, you have done the right thing by contacting the OR. The OR has dealt with the matter, so for you personally you can move forward.
your son would be well advised to speak to an insolvency specialist (not justa solicitor or accountant) who will be able to advice him as to responses and course of action.
Good Luck Richard,
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| Bertie |
Posted - 05 September 2012 : 10:13:35
No we had not long sold the home and was makeing token payments was trying to sort them out but 1 week after selling house my mom fell and broke her hip so I went to look after her and my disabled brother during this period I became very depressed and may be dident deal with the things that I ahold have done this is the period I started to gamble small at first then more it was like a escape route for me because I new in the back of my mind my mom was not going to pull few she had heart problems as well during this time I was stopping away from my husband as we were a good distance from my moms and things just got to much no excuses just how it happened at the time if I could turn back the clock I would this as had a impact on my husband and family but I don't gamble any more and was starting to get better till all the stres of this I love my son and would not have wanted this to happen to him. |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 05 September 2012 : 10:02:42
Hmmm, I presume you have told the OR this. If this can be evidenced then they should not be able to claim any money back of your son. Just checking but I presume you were up to date with all your required payments to creditors at that time as well |
| Bertie |
Posted - 05 September 2012 : 08:47:42
Hi I had proberly £14000 worth of debt and over £30000 left in the bank at the time. |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 05 September 2012 : 06:35:53
so you are saying that at that point 16 months before bankruptcy just after you gave the money to your son you had more assets then you did debts?
What assets and debts did you have? |
| Bertie |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 21:37:37
No to the first I had enough to more than pay my debts at the time of the investment both to the second small cheque to the home sellers and cash for rest no to the third just a verbal agreement between a mother and son bankruptcy wasent till 16 months after the investment. |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 18:47:55
Well the OR has to look at it objectively, they cannot simply go on what you say you intended they have to go with what they can prove to be factual. The fact is that you withdrew money from your bank and gave it to your son. Since you did not pay this direct to the seller or were involed in any of the paperwork for the transfer of the property the OR has to assume that it was simply money that you transfered to your son, What he used it for is not the OR's concern.
The rules work like this
were you insolvent at the time (ie did you have more debts than assets) or become insolvent because of the transaction.
who did you directly transfer the money to
Did you receive a comparable asset or consideration in return - IE was an asset of equal value moved into your posession at the time.
If the the answer to the first is yes and the answer to the last is no then the person in the middle owes the money back |
| Bertie |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 18:37:56
I know I should have declared this on the forms and it made me very I'll so I ended up having a break down and phoned and opoligised and tilt the OR what I had done I received a sixyear bro for this I only put dates down to try and explain the time scales between investing in the property and going bankrupt it was not a gift or pay back for a loan but they excepted the investment when I told them what I had done but know because I have no paper work for the investment I dident see the need as my son was part of the investment it was for our future as we are living in a caravan and as said before had enogh to pay creditors off at time of investment just became I'll after death of mother living away from family and other things going wrong in my life I know this is no excuse for gambling the money and not paying debts I dident plan to become ill turn to gambling or go bankrupt just a simple investment at the time that sixteen months later as come back to haunt me and my son as they know wish to Persue my son for the money and not the investment in the property all he tried to do was help us have a investment for the future |
| Niobe |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 18:09:20
Sorry Richard - don't quite know what you are getting at?
The OP has not put down full names and dates are not a problem? |
| Richard P |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 16:41:41
can we be non specific with dates and real
names please.
if it is an asset in your estate, you are wrong not to have told the OR about the money. The petition is quite specific.
in the last 16 months house prices have considerably dropped, you did not know about bankruptcy, your intentions at the time, your monetary "gain" or involvement now, the equity available for the OR, many more questions would be asked to established the circumstances of the gift.
after examination the OR could consider if your actions were totally inappropriate seek a BRU, seek to obtain the money back from your son or
the OR may be decide that this was a gift and it is not worth pursuing.
Good Luck Richard,
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| Bertie |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 09:09:21
No but he's my son and it was all done in good faith at the time my husband had had surgery we had to sell our house because of financial problems and would not have got a mortgage in our name because of not working due to illness nothing unforeseen we moved to s caravan and it was just a share in a property for the future I did not know that 16 months down the road I would have to declare bankruptcy is there not a time scale on how long they can come back on you and is the cheque not proof enough |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 08:59:01
You see the problem is this, if I make an investment in return for handing over my cash I expect to get something in return. If I give a wad of cash to a stockbroker he gives me the share certificates, if I pay a car dealership he gives me a car, now you gave your son a load of money, what did you get in return, is your name on the property deed. |
| Bertie |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 08:47:54
I gave him £15000 all to tether £14500 cash £500 cheque written to David Wilson homes I gave it to him in September 2010 house was bought 1st oct 2010 went bankrupt 11 th jan 2012 but they proberly a small amount if property was sold after fees if lucky but they choose to ignore it as a investment as the only proof we have is the cheque and they r not bothered about that no other paper trail how can you admit to what you done with something and they choose to say other wise just because it suits them because if they say it was a gift and not a investment they can then get more back surly that's not right in law to twist the the truth and then make us have to try and prove what we done with it when they know we have no other proof only the £500 cheque mortgage in sons name |
| Bertie |
Posted - 04 September 2012 : 08:38:33
quote:
Originally posted by debtinfo
how much did you give him, when did you go bankrupt, doe he still have the house,does it still have equity in it
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