| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| samanthadm |
Posted - 22 July 2009 : 04:54:16
hi there, i am reading spemding a lot of time reading through peoples post's, a lot of the time I am reassured, other times, I am freaked out. Could somebody please tell me if we will lose our pension plans? I am a nurse and pay into the NHS pension, and my husband has a council pension. Will we lose what we have paid so far? thank you |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| samanthadm |
Posted - 31 July 2009 : 10:04:37
It's so complicated isnt it Ripski, there are so many uncertainties, like you say, it would be good to know once and for all the facts, but the legal jargon is so ambiguous in places. We are just resigned to knowing we have to do this regardless, so plan for the worst and hope for the best. I have just spent a few days visiting close family, and informed them so they understsand the change of numbers, move etc, although supportive, their horror at what lays ahead, and fear for us has quite freaked me out. It's reassuring to get back and read through other peoples posts and feel less lonely. Thanks everyone again for your help and advice
things . . . can only get better |
| ripski |
Posted - 28 July 2009 : 08:22:39
This looks good for you,I think I wish I could find out more re mine,which is an occupational superann, similar to a civil service pension. I had hoped to use my lump sum of £60,000 towards half of small property with a friend to give me security in retirement.
I went BR in April and the phone calls and hassle stopped once I informed creditors. I am in an IPA for 3yrs
However I do get conflicting advice re lump sum pension. First expert advised me to go BR to protect the lump sum, then some posts on here quote Insolvnecy guidance /regs which say MAY take the lump sum or part of it. (No explanation of when the MAY is)
OR told me definatley though that once BR finsished and Discharged they are not interested in any windfall /lump sum She was also definate that the Trustee/IPA only wants to know about increased monthly income I wish I could find out for sure so that I can settle my mind and plan There is no point in taking early retiremnet, getting aprop onpy to find thathe trustee wants me to sell or puts a charge.
ripski1 |
| samanthadm |
Posted - 28 July 2009 : 07:15:57
And then I found this:
The Welfare Reform & Pensions Act 1999 Part II section 11 states:-
Part II deals with pensions and bankruptcy and is important as section 11 of the WRPA provides statutory protection for an approved scheme, whether being an occupational pension scheme, personal pension or retirement annuity policies (RAPs) by excluding members pension rights from their estate on bankruptcy.
11 Effect of bankruptcy on pension rights: approved arrangements
(1) Where a bankruptcy order is made against a person on a petition presented after the coming into force of this section, any rights of his under an approved pension arrangement are excluded from his estate.
things . . . can only get better |
| frosie90 |
Posted - 27 July 2009 : 22:42:43
Yep, good way forward. Good luck Samantha. Keep us in touch with how you get on.
Best wishes
Rosie
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| samanthadm |
Posted - 27 July 2009 : 22:13:41
Thank you Frosie and Jan,
For information on the Armed Forces Pension Scheme I found the following:
61.32 Armed Forces Pension Scheme
The Armed Forces Pension Scheme (which administers pensions schemes for the Army, Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy) does not have a clause which prevents the trustee in bankruptcy from claiming the member’s benefits. The exception to this is a pension awarded under the Naval, Military and Air Forces Etc (Disablement and Death) Services Pensions Order 1983 [SI1983/833, as amended] where a member of the armed forces was injured in the course of duty and awarded a disablement benefit. The official receiver should not claim these benefits.
The Ministry of Defence consider that the trustee is prevented from claiming a pension because of a general non-assignment clause unless an income payments order is obtained. The official receiver should maintain the position that the pension vests in the trustee without the need for a further order. Where benefits under the Armed Forces Pension Scheme are paid to an undischarged bankrupt, the official receiver should make application to the court for an income payments order if the bankrupt is a suitable candidate for such an order.
Lets see what happens - either way I am sure the OR the OR will let us know.
things . . . can only get better |
| frosie90 |
Posted - 27 July 2009 : 21:57:36
Me again, when I said "good couple of weeks respite". I meant freedom from the calls etc. You made wise move in changing your number. They can write to you all they like, they will all eventually be included in the BR anyway. You will find you will save the BR fees in no time.
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| frosie90 |
Posted - 27 July 2009 : 21:54:29
Good luck from me too. Sure things will definitely work out for you Samantha. Good, positive and determined step forward with the
cancellation of direct debits and letter to the creditors. I did same and it gave me a good couple of weeks respite. Some creditors were more civil than others. MBNA are ones I found the most difficult but they were the one with the lesser debt??? Good luck. Keep posting.
Rosie
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| Niobe |
Posted - 27 July 2009 : 20:54:52
Good luck Samantha.
The glimmer gets brighter all the time
Jan
xx |
| samanthadm |
Posted - 27 July 2009 : 20:50:24
Thank you all, but I am still confused. My husband is in receipt of a military pension with a guaranteed minimum monthly payment which is protected. We will declare it on the SOA and see what the OR says when we get there.
On another matter, based on advise received we have now cancelled all our Direct Debits to all but essentials (utilities, council tax etc) and have drafted letters to all creditors explaining our predicament and asking for accounts to be placed in abeyance. We have changed our phone number and are now saving as much as possible in order to pay a deposit on a rented home and to pay for our BR.
things . . . can only get better |
| ripski |
Posted - 26 July 2009 : 09:56:14
This is worrying. Anyone with actual experience. There are also lots of 'MAYS' The last para says when IPA in force then trustee MAY seek to recoup any funds. Anyone know when or why they would do this and what is the discretionary element.
I had hoped to take early retriment nest year after I am discharged but I will then be the second year of IPA .
I dont want to ask too specific questions re this now of OR or trustee as others on here (when the have done this have stirred up a lot of admin etc) However I prob might have to in order to plan.
Also has anyone offerred and been allowed to pay the 2yrs IPA up front to clear matters A friend with give me the £2000 to do,this When I asked my OR/case manager she had not heard of this happening and did not know
I am also, poss. will get a £15000 inheritance in next few years I asked her if I received this would it be taken. She was definate that once discharged the OR had no interest in any sumsofmoney and even of I wonthe lottery the OR wouldnotbe interested ,only in monthly income She was very definate that I should read the wording on my IPA which states 'inform of monthly income'
Any thoughts /advice re this. please
ripski1 |
| debtinfo |
Posted - 25 July 2009 : 20:21:54
This is from the insolvency website
31.7.11 Pension Receipts
January 2007
Other income available to the bankrupt can include pension receipts where the bankrupt is already in receipt of the pension income (see Chapter 61, Pension Schemes, paragraphs 61.3 & 61.7) but payments by way of guaranteed minimum pension and payments giving effect to the bankrupt’s protected rights must not be included an any IPA calculation.
Where the official receiver becomes aware that the bankrupt (prior to discharge) is due to receive payment from a pension, the official receiver may seek to agree an IPA to recover any lump sum, or if this is not possible to agree, apply to court for an income payments order to recover any lump sum, and may include other pension payments in the calculation for income in his/her application.
Where an IPA/IPO is in force and the official receiver/trustee becomes aware that a bankrupt is likely to attain retirement age during the period of the IPA/IPO they should be made aware that their pension entitlement may be affected and a variation sought to claim the pension monies in whole or in part (see also paragraph 31.7.52 and Chapter 61, Pension Schemes, paragraph 61.27)
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| debtinfo |
Posted - 25 July 2009 : 20:19:12
It would be classed the same as any earned Income |
| frosie90 |
Posted - 25 July 2009 : 19:41:54
Great, just did not want to mis-lead Samantha in earlier post as I can only speak about pension schemes where they are still being paid into but do not know about pensions that are currently being paid out as an income. I would imagine, like Kallis said, that the military pension, if being paid out currently, would be classed as income. |
| m44uk |
Posted - 25 July 2009 : 10:29:01
Hi,
I had this conversation with OR yesterday. As long as you have not stashed a lot of money into the pension in the prior year to Bancrupcy and that it is a HMRC recognised scheme you are OK. |
| Niobe |
Posted - 25 July 2009 : 07:31:17
I'm no expert but I would think that if he is receiving the pension, it should be noted down as income and taken into consideration.
Not 100% sure though.
The glimmer gets brighter all the time
Jan
xx |
