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notsleeping
Junior Member
United Kingdom
175 Posts |
 Posted - 05 August 2008 : 21:24:22
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I have recently been made bankrupt by my council for nonpayment of council tax. I have applied for an annulment on the grounds of
"should not have been made" and am awaiting a court date.
At the initial bankruptcy hearing
I said I was able to pay the debt and the case was adjourned for two months.
I phoned the councils lawyers the next day to pay by credit card, but as they use an answer phone system I was asked
to leave contact details and case number and they would get back to me. When they didn’t get back to me in a couple of days
I phoned and again left details. I phoned them 4 times in the first few weeks, but got fed up with it and phoned the council instead.
I tried to pay the council but they refused to take the money and referred me back to their lawyers despite my complaints that they had not returned my calls. I again left my details on their system.
At this point I left the country for work reasons but as the hearing date grew near and after further phone calls, where I tried the various options on their phone service to try and speak to a human being, had failed, the last time I was not even able to leave a message
(all their mail boxes were full!), I decided to contact the court itself, to try and either pay the money to the court or tell them what had been going on. I then found out I’d got the date wrong and had been declared bankrupt two days earlier.
The council would not initially talk to me about this until I contacted my councillors and my MP, They have now had an"investigation". and examined my phone records showing 20 calls in my attempts to pay and have found they have a record of me trying to pay them and
complaining about the lack of response from their lawyers. The lawyers have looked at their message tapes but have only been able
to find my last message to them. They have apologised for not returning it and are examining their message system.
But despite this the council is still opposing my annulment and my question is, is there any case history of a creditor refusing payment for a debt and
then going on to have the debtor made bankrupt for nonpayment. Do the experts here think that my missing the hearing will be grounds for not annuling the bankruptcy.
I've searched high and low looking for information on this.
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Helpful Advice
Average Member
United Kingdom
646 Posts |
Posted - 06 August 2008 : 09:41:49
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Hi not sleeping,
Welcome to the Forum,
The council will be able to oppose the annulment until it is paid then they can no longer oppose.
The issue is you do not dispute that you owe the money so you will be unable to annul your Bankruptcy until your debts are settled.
Have you had a meeting with the OR yet?
Kind Regards,
Brett England
Bankruptcy Specialist
England,Jackman & Spacey
WebSite www.ejands.co.uk
View my personal story & blogs at:
http://brettengland.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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Helpful Advice
Average Member
United Kingdom
646 Posts |
Posted - 06 August 2008 : 09:42:17
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Hi not sleeping,
Welcome to the Forum,
The council will be able to oppose the annulment until it is paid then they can no longer oppose.
The issue is you do not dispute that you owe the money so you will be unable to annul your Bankruptcy until your debts are settled.
Have you had a meeting with the OR yet?
Kind Regards,
Brett England
Bankruptcy Specialist
England,Jackman & Spacey
WebSite www.ejands.co.uk
View my personal story & blogs at:
http://brettengland.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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notsleeping
Junior Member
United Kingdom
175 Posts |
Posted - 07 August 2008 : 15:13:39
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Hi and thanks for your reply.
Yes I've already had my meeting with my OR.
But although I have the funds to pay the council tax she has now told me that since I was declared Bankrupt I can no longer pay it until I have enough money to pay all my credit cards and other debts.
My problem is that before I was declared bankrupt the council refused to accept payment and now that I am bankrupt I'm not allowed to pay them unless I get an annulment which they are opposing. They have made some apologies to me for their system not working but are not prepared to do anything that would of any practical use. In the circumstances I find an apology almost insulting. |
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Suzanne
Average Member
United Kingdom
869 Posts |
Posted - 07 August 2008 : 16:26:45
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Hi
I would say you have grounds for a annulment on the basis of 'ought not to have been made' seeing as you tried continuously to pay before the adjourned hearing, and have documentary evidence. The only way a Judge could disallow this is if they felt you had not done everything in your power to pay, such as sending a cheque, or going in person to the lawyer.
Suzanne Stocker
Bankruptcy Manager
Jones Giles Ltd
www.jonesgiles.co.uk
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Helpful Advice
Average Member
United Kingdom
646 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2008 : 09:32:32
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Hi Not sleeping,
If this is the case then I would get the apology from the council in writing as it is an admission that you had done all that you could.
Based on this I feel that the Judge would have no reason to oppose the Annulment.
Kind Regards,
Brett England
Bankruptcy Specialist
England,Jackman & Spacey
WebSite www.ejands.co.uk
View my personal story & blogs at:
http://brettengland.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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zoe
Junior Member
329 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2008 : 10:10:47
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This seems very strange!!!
I am a Council Tax manager and i know that BR's are the absolute last resort - the debt must be at least 2 years old is there any reason why you didn't deal with this before??? Councils will check extensively to see if you have assets as it is public money they have to pay to make you bankrupt and they want to be certain it can be regained - are you actually insolvent? do you have money in property etc?? if so you can argue OR's point that you cannot pay your debts??
Have you taken the issue up with the Councils solicitor??
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Edited by - zoe on 08 August 2008 10:13:17 |
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notsleeping
Junior Member
United Kingdom
175 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2008 : 21:26:18
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Hello all
A brief History.
About 4 and a half years ago I was in over my head with debt I owed around 50k after my small business collapsed, the job I'd been doing for around 25 yrs was disappearing (new technology was taking over) and the amount of work I was getting was falling every year. I've since made a gradual career change and over the last few years I've managed to clear 30k of that debt, partly as a result of a remortgage but at a very high rate. Basically I did it by concentrating on the most urgent debts until I cleared them and just trying to service the others until I could clear them too.
It wasn't easy on an irregular and to be honest a shrinking income.
By an urgent debt I'm talking about one that was either taking me to court or had called the bailifs in, and your right Zoe the Council are the most reasonable and patient of creditors and in a way that's why they got left till last. Its also why I end up paying so much for my council tax, I have to accept that when I have the money to pay I will also be paying fines on top. It is very expensive to be in debt, no-one would do it this way by choice.
I was tied into my new mortgage company until April 2008 and if I missed no payments my mortgage broker(a personal friend)would be able to remortgage my home at a much better rate or in my case take on a larger mortgage for the same payments and use the money to clear the last of my debts.
In 2007 the council debt became one of my urgent debts when they started bankruptcy proceedings against me. But I calculated I could pay a large part of it in the New Year and clear the rest before the hearing. But unfortunatly when I paid the council £800 in January it was used to pay that years council tax rather than the one we were going to court over.
Basically I knew if I could hang on till April I would get through it so I decided to use a credit card to pay (which was something I'd been avoiding doing as previously this had got me further into debt).
Everything was on track, I had been accepted for a remortgage....and then I could not get the council to accept my payment (see above).
As for the councils Solicitors, they were the firm I was supposed to pay. In two Months they didn't return one phone call (my phone records show I made 13). After checking their messages they say they have only been able find one message and have apologised for not returning it (in writing). Since it was the last message I left I wrote back to the council and asked if they still had and were they able to check the earlier message dates. They wrote back and said they could only repeat what their lawyers told them.
Of course I contacted the council and complained and tried to make the payment to them, but they would not take it. As (as I now know) they have standing instruction to refer any bankruptcy matters to the solicitors who I was complaining were not returning my calls.
You have to understand none of this was bad tempered, The tax officer was perfectly sweet and reassuring, telling me not to worry, that the lawyers would be in touch, my problem was I believed her, and I'm perfectly sure she believed it too. |
Edited by - notsleeping on 08 August 2008 21:28:11 |
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zoe
Junior Member
329 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2008 : 15:24:48
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I would have thought she did!
How appaling by the solicitor. If it was my LA i would have certainly contacted teh solicitor myself and asked tehm to contact you for payment, this is after all what they are after, Councils never want to see people br - mearly want public money paid.
When is your hearing with the court for set aside??
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notsleeping
Junior Member
United Kingdom
175 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2008 : 20:12:49
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| Still no court day set, it seems there is a backlog in the court. I was initially advised about 5-6 days for being given a date, it's now around 7 weeks. |
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searched high and low looking for the information
