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nathan 2
Junior Member
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
 Posted - 16 August 2008 : 10:19:44
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| will it be frowned upon if I sell my car (worth around £2,500) to pay off family debts and then get a company car from work, hence reducing my income by about £500 per month? Can the OR make me opt out of the company car scheme and purchase another cheap run around? Also, will they make my wife sell her car (worth about £3,500). She does not work but we have a 3 month old baby |
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Trolly-Dolly
Average Member
591 Posts |
Posted - 16 August 2008 : 11:14:14
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I've no idea about the cars, but yes it will be frowned upon to repay family members; see lillys thread.
You can read my blog here;
http://drowningmummy.blogs.iva.co.uk/ |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 16 August 2008 : 11:20:56
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Hi DM is right
no problem with selling the car and the company car deal is fine and helpful as with a lower income it will protect disposable income.
If only you are BR then your wife's car is safe.
The repayment to your family from the proceeds of your car is an issue. Preferential treatment is not permitted and the monies can be reclaimed by the OR.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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nathan 2
Junior Member
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
Posted - 16 August 2008 : 17:33:34
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Many thanks for the advice.
Presumably then, it would be frowned upon if I sold my car prior to becoming BR to pay off any loans or credit cards that could be covered by this amount? Is the best bet to just leave it be and let the OR take control?
I have noticed a few people qouting "allowable expenditure". Is there a guideline or national average for what is allowed to be claimed each month?
I am also concerned that they may make me move out of our rented house! An IVA sales person tried to put the frighteners on me by saying that the £850 PCM that I am paying is too much and the OR will make me, my wife and our 12 week old child move into cheaper rented accommodation to free up "disposable income". I have tried to explain that rented houses don't come much cheaper in Birmingham unless you move somewhere "unsuitable". Is £850 PCM for a 3 bed semi too much?
I am (like most people here) new to this and never expected to be in this situation. I have a very well paid job in construction and don't withstand that I will be paying a substantial amount over the next few years, but with the collapse of the housing market, I have little choice. All I want is to be treat fairly, as I have lived every day working hard and paying lots of taxes. I have been a victim of doing the same as most and overstretching in the property market to try and better myself.
Many thanks again for your help. |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 16 August 2008 : 17:45:47
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Hi
If you need the car for work etc the OR will let you keep it as it is borderline in value.
If the car were worth more it could be claimed by the OR and he, if you need one for work etc, would pass back around £2K for you to buy another.
Selling it in order to pay loans credit cards is the same as repaying your friends / family, not permitted.
There is a guideline of expenditure the OR refers to but I'm not sure it's public information.
I've yet to find it anyway.
If £850 is average for your area then I'm sure you'll be fine.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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nathan 2
Junior Member
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 10:37:46
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A couple of months ago I had repaid my mother in law for her help for our wedding in June 2007. I have given her the £4k that she lent me at the time and not a penny more. I owe my mam a further £5k for her help with the wedding, honeymoon and bills at various times over the last couple of years and this is what I had been planning to sell my car for.
As I now know that I am not to do this, it worries me that the money I had repaid my mother in law will be taken off of her. What if she has already spent some of it??? Will she be dragged in to this mess if she is unable to give the OR the £4k that belongs to her anyway?
Extremely worried son in law. |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 11:00:58
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Hi
how were the transactions made?
From m-i-l to you? Or did she pay the costs directly to the "supplier"?
How did you pay her back? Cash, by cheque?
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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nathan 2
Junior Member
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 11:11:18
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I think a mixture of the 2. I recall a substantial cheque being put into our account so that we could pay the balance of the reception, but I also think that they paid for the flowers direct.
I need to look through our files to confirm.
We had paid her a cheque to cover what her records said we owed. (£4k).
I now have the wonderful job of telling her that she may have to give it to the OR. If ever there were a coversation that you'd like to avoid!!!
I am due a bonus from work in Decemeber (in the region of £12k gross). This will be in addition to my monthly wage (approx £3.3k net). Will they take all of my bonus off of me or just 70%? Could I reassure her that I will pay her back upon receipt of my bonus?
Thanks again. |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 12:36:00
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Hi
ok who is going BR just you, or both you and your wife?
Was the £4K payment made from your account or a joint account?
If it was joint account, who signed the cheque?
I should also say that it's not easy for the OR to reclaim preferential payments to a family member.
The OR cannot investigate too far into your m-i-l's affairs.
If the OR found the returned funds to have been spent then you would be looking at a BRU instead.
So I wouldn't be offering up any info to the inlaws at this stage.
If you are BR at the time of your bonus the net proceeds should all be passed to the OR.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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nathan 2
Junior Member
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 12:56:44
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Helo again,
I am the only one going bankrupt.
The cheque had been made out to my wife and had been deposited in our joint account. This is the same account that the cheque had been written from to pay the M-I-L back. I don't know whether she has spent it or whether it's just sat in an account, but my worry is that they will take this from her and she won't have the money to give them.
The £5k that my mother gave us to help was just a straight forward cheque, paid to me into our joint account which I had been hoping to pay back with the sale of my car and the remainder of my wage this month.
I am not too sure when I will have to declare bankruptcy, as I have been keeping my head above water up until a judgement against me at the start of this month for some property development deal that had gone wrong earlier in the year. This has forced my hand and now I am trying to get everything sorted and as tidy as possible before I have to declare BR.
Also. What is BRU? I assume from the context that it is some sort of investigation???
Many thanks again for your time and advice.
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Skippy
forum expert
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 16:11:24
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A BRU is a Bankruptcy Restriction Undertaking which is given in cases of misconduct before BR. It can last for up to 15 years, although a BRU of that length would only be for the most serious cases. If you have a BRU you are still discharged after 1 year, but you are subject to the restrictions of BR (no credit over £500, can't work in certain professions etc) for the duration of the BRU.
If you dispute the BRU, the OR can apply to the courts for a BRO (Bankruptcy Restriction Order), which is generally longer, although still no longer than 15 years.
Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, today is the present, a gift to make the most of.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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nathan 2
Junior Member
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 18:24:36
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Thanks for that Skippy.
Your blog makes for interesting reading.
Nice to know that you have got through relatively unscathed.
I am a little worried about your accepted ougoings though as mine look more like this:-
SOURCE PCM
RENT £850.00
HOME PHONE LINE RENTAL £20.00
COUNCIL TAX £140.00
SKY TV £21.00
TV LICENCE £12.00
GAS / ELEC £100.00
T.MOBILE £30.00
ORANGE £30.00
PETROL £900.00
WATER £33.00
LIFE INSURANCE £15.00
CONTENTS INSURANCE £16.00
SPENDING MONEY £250.00
SHOPPING £400.00
LUNCH / BREAKFAST (WORK) £130.00
GYM £25.00
CAR MAINTENANCE £50.00
CAR INSURANCE £35.00
CAR TAX £20.00
DENTAL / MEDICAL PROVISION £40.00
HAIR CUTS £30.00
WINDOW CLEANER £6.50
HOLIDAY £80.00
CLOTHES £80.00
TOTAL £3,325.50
I need a lot of the expnditure as I work away from home and have to stop out on occasion, and travel the rest of the time (hence the large fuel bill). Plus, I am the only wage earner of the family.
The aforementioned leaves me with around £400 PCM disposable, of which I suppose they would be looking to reclaim 70%.
Do you think that they will question my expenditure?
I already know that they will make me get rid of my "spending money", SKY TV and my Gym membership, but what about everything else? If they do make me get rid of the above, that will make my disposable around £700PCM. Will they be happy with 70% of that or will they look to try and make me cut back on more?
I am not blackguarding anything... what's outgoing is outgoing.
Thanks.
Nathan
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 19:45:37
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Hi nathan
what is the family make up?
Is there a specific reason for 2 mobiles?
Is 1 of them for work purposes?
Do you not claim any expenses from your employer re fuel/mobile/meals
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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nathan 2
Junior Member
United Kingdom
192 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 20:14:11
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I pay for 2 mobiles because one of them belongs to my wife, who is a full time mother / housewife.
In our house there is my wife, our baby, the dog and I.
My company do offer a work mobile, but I need my own as personal calls are monitored and not allowed.
My travel expenses are catered for, my meals are not, but the figures are included in my income stated.
I could (by changing jobs / locations) reduce my expenditure greatly, but by doing so, I would probably reduce my income by around £30k per annum also. I have looked into working closer to home as I don't see the point of continuing to travel over 1000 miles per week just to earn extra money, when 70% of my disposable income is to be taken. Why not work around home and (with the bankruptcy) take the pay cut that I could never have afforded to take before? This would give me the time that I long for at home with my wife and newborn.
However, I do want to be fair and to recognise that, should it not be for my circumstances, I would not be considering a pay cut and, therefore, will not attempt to withstand the amounts taken from me by the OR.
I just want an end to all this.
Many thanks John
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Skippy
forum expert
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 20:14:40
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I cant say for definite what the OR will allow or disallow, but the things that jump out at me are:
Do you need 2 mobiles?
Sky will probably be disallowed as you would be able to pay for this out of your surplus.
Can you claim back any of the petrol?
Spending money will be disallowed as you will be expected to use your surplus.
Lunch / breakfast at work - can you take sandwiches for lunch?
Gym - this will probably be disallowed. I pay for mine from my surplus.
The general allowance for haircuts for an adult is £10 a month.
Window cleaner - I'm not sure if this allowed
Holiday - this may be disallowed. I was allowed £20 for myself.
Clothes - I was was allowed £40 a month, but if you have to wear suits for work you may be allowed this, it's up to the OR.
Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, today is the present, a gift to make the most of.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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Skippy
forum expert
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 20:19:14
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Sorry, John was quicker than me!
One thing I will say to you is to do what makes you happy. If you will have a better quality of life by working closer to home and spending more time with your wife and baby then go for it. At the end of the day your family come first, and life's too short to look back and think what might have been - I know that from experience.
Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, today is the present, a gift to make the most of.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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will it be frowned upon ?
