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smile or cry
Junior Member
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
 Posted - 03 September 2008 : 20:03:49
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We desperatly need some advise on do we go BR please.
We are 17 months into an IVA with two payment missed, 1 of them being through a mess up with our rent.
We had a varitation meeting today and were finally told by our IVA company that the creditors had accepted with an extra six months, but i refused. Then they phoned back and said that an extension hadn't been added at all so it was accepted with out an extension but 1 creditor had wanted an extension and as they were out numbered the meeting had been adjourned for them to re-vote.
Every time there is a five week month our IP is saying that we have earned an extra weeks money when we clearly haven't. The other half is paid weekly and it is clear that the wages are not being worked out on a 13 week basis to allow for fluctuation in 4 and 5 week months.
We also feel due to the credit crunch and with our yearly review in 6 months that we are going to be going through this again to which i just can't handle.
We have 50k of debt due to illness, no work and ill advise from banks which we nievely agreed with. We have No Assets and rent from a council house.
We really do need some advise as we are not sure what to do |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 20:27:30
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Hi
as you have a safe haven in respect of your home and no other assets I would recommend you consider BR. Your IVA payments are clearly crippling you financially, as they do most people.
17 months in you have 43 to go with 3 yearly reviews to face.
Unless you feel morally obliged to continue then BR will remove all of this stress very quickly.
The expenditure in BR is more lenient than that in IVA and on top of that you would not be asked to pay 100% of your disposable income in an IPA. You may not even qualify for an IPA in BR but if you do it will run for a maximum 36 months and at less per month than your paying now.
You will of course need to raise the funds to go BR at £495 each or £350 each if you claim certain benefits.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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m and v
Average Member
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 20:49:32
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Hi - I went BR in April after struggling to meet ever increasing IVA payments for two years.
I found my IVA was far from the answer to my debt problems and like you had no assets and live in rented accomodation.
Going BR was without a doubt a massive relief and I am finally able to sleep at night!
I found my judge extremely understanding of my situation and he wished me all the best for a debt free future.
BR is not an easy choice but, for me, after two years of extra worry in an IVA, it has been life changing.
If I can give you anymore advice or support let me know!
All the best
Vicki x |
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smile or cry
Junior Member
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 21:05:35
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thank you ever so much for your replies, it means a lot.
Hi John I'm not sure what you mean by an IPA, could you explain this please?
Hi M and V, How did you come to go BR, did you make the choice to fail the IVA or was this done for you. when I spoke with our IVA Company Synergi today, I was told I could not file for BR as the creditors had to make that decision. I've been trying to look into BR and i thought we could petition for BR ourselves, but not until we had a certificate of termination. I was given the impression from Synergi that the creditors won't fail the IVA. we were also told that we have to go through variation meetings. |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 22:08:25
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Hi smileorcry
In bankruptcy an IPA (Income Payment Agreement) will be imposed if you have more than £99 of disposable income per month after allowing for all reasonable expenditure.
If your DI is £100 you would have to pay £50 (50%) to your IPA. If you had £500 DI the payment would be £350 (70%). Payments are always 50% to 70% and the IPA lasts for 36 months.
It is very unlikely that you would get an IPA if your only income to the household is via state benefits.
PS stop paying the IVA for 3 months and your IVA has probably failed.
Then request your Certificate of Termination from the IP. If he refuses let us know, if the court were to hear of it they would take a very dim view of the IP.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
Edited by - John on 03 September 2008 22:11:14 |
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m and v
Average Member
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 07:50:20
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Hi there - after having numerous payment holidays at times when I just could not meet the payments my IP wanted, I finally decided to go BR.
You can do a couple of things I suppose:
1. Stop making payments and wait for your IP/creditors to declare you BR after 3 missed payments - this could take months for them to meet, do the paper work, take the steps to make you BR, or..
2. Stop making payments and after 3 months tell them you are declaring yourself BR, you court date is X and you need confirmation from them your IVA has failed for the judge.
I did it this way, I missed two payments, knew I couldn't pay the third in March this year, and after many questions on this forum decided BR was the way to go.
My IP was initially stroppy at the missed payments but when I told them I was declaring my own BR was happy to send "proof" my IVA had failed. After all I have saved them the cost of making me BR!
The proof was a one sentence letter that I handed to the judge on the day.
Not heard from my IP since!
Either way if you aren't making payments your IVA fails - your creditors then realise they aren't going to get much from you if you go BR so you can see why they don't particularly want you to go down the BR route.
My IVA payments doubled in the first six months - despite huge increases in outgoings and a decrease in income - it was bound to fail. I feel they had every chance to be realistic and review the payments.
Anyway now I am debt free and BR hasn't affected me or my family at all.
I was even able to ask the judge not to post my BR in the local paper as all my creditors are aware of my insolvency. It cost me an extra £30 for the second court order but worth every penny!
Vicki x |
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smile or cry
Junior Member
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 07:50:52
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The advise we are being given here is really helpful to us and we are starting to sway towards BR. There is just one thing that is also on our minds if we do go BR and that is:
As the variation meeting has been accepted by our creditors and if we decide not to accept and stop making payments and fail the IVA, will this go against us in the court when we file for BR?
Synergi were very against us not accepting the variation meeting and told us only the creditors could only fail the IVA / petition for BR. When I've read very differently. |
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m and v
Average Member
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 08:09:47
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Hi - declaring my own BR after missed payments hasn't been a problem for me at all.
I explained on my SOA how my change in personal circumstances had made meeting the IVA payments impossible and that my IP wouldn't review/reduce them to a level I could meet. I had borrowed money from family to meet payments over the two years and that I desperately needed to resolve my financial problems and have a fresh start.
The OR also went through the circumstances leading up to my BR and was surprisingly understanding of my IVA failure - I guess they see a lot of them!
Be prepared to talk through your IVA with the OR, but by this stage you are already BR and they are just trying to establish how your debt occured. Going into an IVA first can only look good and the OR will see you have tried really hard to resolve your debt problems before going BR.
You'll be fine - it's worth going through this period of doubt to get out the other side and be debt free.
Shout if I can help you anymore!
Vicki x |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 11:48:28
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Hi Vicki,
Great to see you back! Keep up the good work :)
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
Don't forget the helpline on 0800 078 9367 |
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m and v
Average Member
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 14:12:53
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Thanks Julian - it was "that" email that did it! xx
Vicki x |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 14:15:54
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Your continued support is very much appreciated :)
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
Don't forget the helpline on 0800 078 9367 |
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smile or cry
Junior Member
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 16:17:56
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I've been at work all day and dying to get back on this forum to read the advice posted here as it's giving both of us advise from people who are / were in our situation and it is helping so much.
All I can think about is what way are we going to go and the only think stoping us to make the final decision is that we are worried that if we don't accept the lower payments and we fail the IVA and that when we finally file for BR (we have to some how save a grand)it will go against us.
Another question to this is 'Can the court turn down BR even if you file for it yourselves and have paid the so much needed money As we certainly cannot afford to loose a grand. |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 16:37:18
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Hi
as long as your documentation is completed correctly and you clearly cannot repay the debt, for which a failed IVA should be more than enough to convince the judge, then BR will be declared.
If there are some minor errors on the paperwork the court clerk will usually help but only up to a point.
You should have no concerns whatsoever about how the judge will view your situation just because you have been in an IVA and have been offered lower payments. On the contrary the judge will take the view that you have tried your best to repay what you can but even that is now unaffordable.
I'm sure you'll be fine.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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smile or cry
Junior Member
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 20:15:50
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God I am even more stressed out now after speaking with the women who dealt with the variation meeting. We thought we'd do the right thing and accept the reduced payments to at least try it anyway, but that We would not be paying the excess earnings asked for as no matter how many times we mention that we are being penalised every time there is a five week month they way we have earned an extra week they won't listen.
To be told that we are making excuses not to make the payments to fail the IVA. Our second payment missed in August was due to there being a mix up in our rent and having to pay double, so the IVA payment was missed.
When I told her we have also had an expensive month for school uniform(my eldest has just gone up to secondary and basic pe kit was £109, not including trainers, footy boots or the main school unifrom)and most of the uniform i has to come from trutex / the school and kitting out a younger son also. she said well then call another variation meeting, but there will be an extension added on that one.
Now we are really torn on the right option |
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brokebutstillalive
Junior Member
United Kingdom
182 Posts |
Posted - 05 September 2008 : 00:13:53
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| M and V - please tell more about your bankruptcy not going in the paper. This is important to me as everyone one at my work reads the local paper and this is a major factor in whether or not we go bankrupt as I will probably have to find another job if the ad goes in (which will be almost impossible in my area!). |
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m and v
Average Member
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
Posted - 05 September 2008 : 08:50:59
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Hi Broke - I had been in an IVA for two years and asked the judge on the day I went to court of it was necessary for it to go in local papers. I may have caught him on a good day, as I know this is a rare occurence, but he said for an additional £30 court fee he would give me a court order stating it should not go in the local paper. The fact that I had been in an IVA and all my creditors knew of my insolvency is what clinched it for me.
Hope this helps
Vicki x |
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Topic |
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DO we go BR or keep with the IVA
