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bang up
New Member
58 Posts |
 Posted - 02 October 2008 : 22:16:32
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please - has anybody with an 18 year old at univesity been allowed to include them as a dependant. i don't mean pocket money / christmas presents stuff but more as a dependant person when it comes to working out the housekeepng / utilities / travel etc.
if so, please let me know cos my o/r imterviewer won't allow my daughter to be included yet her student loan / grant is paid direct to the university for her fees with £3000 left for her of which she has just bought a laptop and £200 in books essential for her cousework. the money is paid in installments of £1000 at intervals of 4 months so she has nothing for housekeeping etc until at least december.
the insolvancy website says a dependant is a child or an adult in the household with no income.
am i really being unreasonable in asking her to be included in our figures?
i have spoken to her about this and already she is offering to quit university and get a job to help out but i really, really want her to fulfil her dream, but at the same time i know i'm never gonna be able to pay the kind of money the ipa is for.
i'm back to so depressed again.
thanks for reading |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 12:58:15
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Hi
the insolvency website definition is correct but in order for your daughter to qualify as a dependant she has to be resident at your address and not elsewhere (lodgings for instance).
If she is a permanent resident at your home address you should disclose, as her contribution to the household, the amount she has left per month from Student Loans, on average, after her course fees have been deducted at source and her average monthly spend on books etc has been taken into consideration.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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bang up
New Member
58 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 15:26:16
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jon,
thanks for the reply. my daughter still lives at home and i did put her on my form as a dependent but the interviewer just wouldn't accept her in his ipa calculation.
he did say i could challenge this, which i'm just typing my response now - i feel like i'm begging.
another thing - the inteviewer worked everything out using a guideline table from 2006!! he said it was the most up-to-date set of figures he had but surely there must be something more accurate - after all, we are almost in 2009! do you know if this is correct?
thanks for your time. |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 15:40:02
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Hi Bang Up,
The SOA dies have a section for dependants that are not living with you. Was your OR interview over the phone? If so, that would have been with a B3 examiner which are the lowest grade examiner in the Insolvency Service and can be quite over-zealous! Definitely challenge this and go to the assistant OR if necessary to get the result you need.
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
Don't forget the helpline on 0800 078 9367 |
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bang up
New Member
58 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 16:00:44
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julien,
thanks for your reply.
the 18 yo daughter in question does still live at home and i made this clear on the soa and when we spoke at interview, which was at bloomsbuty place and not over the phone.
i do have another daughter aged 20, also at university but living away from home. i contribute £100 a month to her rent but the interviewer wouldn't allow that either - he said i could pay from my disposable income, which i also disagree with but am prepared to reluctantly accept since it seems i have little choice.
the upshot of all this aspect of my bankruptcy is both daughters have told me they are thinking of quitting university to get full time jobs to help out with this mess, which i think is a fantastic gesture from my girls but not something i can allow them to do.
i am writing to the interviewer but i don't know what difference it's going to make - still gonna try though cos my ipa is going to be £650 a month and i know i won't be able t pay that much for the next 3 years.
thanks for reading. |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 16:12:43
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Hi Bang Up,
I guess your interview was probably with a B2 examiner (did it last about 3 hours?). These guys are very thorough, but again can sometimes be a bit over-zealous. What you have to bear in mind is that the Indsolvency Service is under a lot of pressure from the mainline lenders to get a better result as the average dividend in BR is only 2p in the £. Remember, you can take it to the assistant OR if you are unhappy with the outcome.
Having said that, B1 and B2 examiners are generally very fair. Without knowing the exact details of your income and expenditure, it is difficult to speculate on their decision-making process in your case.
If you are being asked for an IPA for £650 per month, the exaiminer must have felt you have a disposable income of almost £1000 per month. Do remember that the court is the law, not the OR. If you don't sign an IPA, the OR will go to court for an IPO where you will have an opportunity to argue your case in front of a judge who will be making the final decision.
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
Don't forget the helpline on 0800 078 9367 |
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bang up
New Member
58 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 16:43:47
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hi juilen - thanks again for suh a prompt reply.
he says i have a disposable income of £933 so i must pay £653 a month. i earn £2100 after tax and my dependants are my wife, our daughter and our foster daughter. my wife doesn't work cos she's a foster carer so there's no wage coming in there.
by my reckoning i just about have £400 disposable income and i just can't agree the interviewer's calculations. there were other things like my gas and electric are £75 and £85 a month paid by direct debit so it can't really be argued yet he allowed me £40 for each of them!!
do you know what julien - i'm just so sick of it all that i feel like giving up and walking away from everything - still the hsbc are hassling with their nasty phone calls. still mint are sending threarening letters. also fighting my landlord (the prison service)against eviction cos they are nationally throwing prison officers and their families out on the street and i happen to be one of them.
this is ****. |
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Suzanne
Average Member
United Kingdom
869 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 16:44:00
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Hi
I have noticed some confusion over the grades of examiners. A B3 examiner is a senior examiner who conducts most of the face to face interviews with bankrupts and company directors.
A B2 examiner is in the main an investigative examiner.
A B1 examiner is the least qualified of the examiners and deals with all the telephone interviews and some of the less complicated face to face interviews.
I think the reason for them being difficult about you supporting adults in education is that many other adults have to support themselves by working part time in evenings and weekends in order to support themselves through university. Creditors would take umbridge if they thought that money that could potentially pay off some of the debt was in fact supporting adults in education that could support themselves.
I know it sounds harsh, but they are following guidelines and looking out for creditors.
Suzanne Stocker
Bankruptcy Manager
Jones Giles Ltd
www.jonesgiles.co.uk
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bang up
New Member
58 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 17:16:01
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hi suzanne,
thanks for your reply.
i'm not an unreasonable person and cetainly i can see what you are saying. but on the other hand, the insolvancy website does define a dependent as a person without income and aside from the £25 a week she gets from the part time job she's just started she comes in that category.
so far most of her student loan / grant has been spent on university fees plus essential items for university and there's still her fares to get to university. she tells me the next loan payment installment is in december. obviously i can't let her starve but things do look that grim at the moment.
i do accept what you say about the creditor's viewpoint but i also thought bankruptcy was about a fresh start for the debtor.
I had hope to come out of this nightmare with at least some dignity but this repayment schedule puts me straight back to facing yet another huge financial commitment I’m not in any position to fulfil and I’m sure if I were to agree to the ipa then I’d be setting myself up to fail, which I’m desperate to avoid.
you're right suzanne, it is harsh. i wonder how harsh it would be for me to walk away from my job and leave the creditors with nothing to claw back from me. after all, i'm also pretty fed up with being spat on, punched and verbally abused by the people i spend so much effort on looking after and trying to help.
maybe i don't exactly mean all that but i really don't see much point in carrying on at the moment.
thanks for reading. |
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bang up
New Member
58 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 17:22:58
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| hey needafriend - thanks and i know and i'm so grateful to everyone on this website. it really has got me through the last few months. today is just another crap day but maybe tomorrow things'll be better. or maybe tonight i'll win the euromillions jackpot. if i do we'll hire a decent venue and i'll throw a huge party for all the regulars on this site. |
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Needafriend
Junior Member
United Kingdom
344 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2008 : 17:26:55
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Hey now thats the spirit.
Take care
Jo x
Please visit my blog for info on how I got here and other information to guide you through from my experience called:
"Mother Hen's New Debt Free Life with Links and added info on Bankruptcy!" available to view at:
http://debtfreejo.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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huntersrishon
Junior Member
189 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2008 : 13:00:47
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Hi Bang up.
I hope this all gets sorted out for you. What did you try and claim for your daughter living at home as a dependant? Was it just food and gas electricity or was it clothes hairdressers etc?? Do they expect her to live at home and for you to say - sorry you can buy your own food and pay for your electricity and gas. If so that is unbelievable, I have not heard of anything so cruel.
Our daughter receives a bursery that pays for all her books, her travel to and from uni and her travel when she is on her placements. She travels every day to and from both uni and placement, but spends every night at home.
Dee  |
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dr_kitten
Junior Member
United Kingdom
124 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2008 : 20:33:10
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Hi Bang up,
You mentioned on another thread that your daughter was at uni studying medicine. If this is the case then you should probably make it clear to the OR that there is no way she can get a part time job evenings/weekends/holidays to support herself during term time as medical students do not get holidays like students on other degree courses. I know on my course I got 2 weeks at Christmas, 1 at Easter and I could take one other week during the year if my educational supervisor allowed it. There was no time at all during those few weeks to earn enough to pay for a year's food and rent!
I know of absolutely nobody who has managed to support themselves through medical school with part time evening and weekend working - as a student you are also required to work evenings and weekends on hospital attachments.
Maybe if you mention this to the OR they may be more sympathetic? |
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Needafriend
Junior Member
United Kingdom
344 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2008 : 21:03:32
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Hi Agree with Dr Kitten try and inform the OR of this and see where you stand. If you dont ask you dont get and unless they are completely aware of the circumstances then they cant really make an informed decsion.
Good luck
Jo x
Your Mother Hen :-)
Please visit my blog for info on how I got here and other information to guide you through from my experience called:
"Mother Hen's New Debt Free Life with Links and added info on Bankruptcy!" available to view at:
http://debtfreejo.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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huntersrishon
Junior Member
189 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2008 : 21:19:13
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Hi Bang up
My daughter is studying to be a childrens nurse and they cannot work with medical training as they are on placements doing night shifts etc and like Dr Kitten said they cannot get summer jobs as they do not get the summer off. I hope if they say we cannot support our daughter I have the strength to argue with them and stand my ground. Until you are in that situation you do not know how you will react but I think it is sooooooo wrong to say you cannot support your daughter. I hope it all works out for you.
Dee x |
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bang up
New Member
58 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2008 : 09:25:42
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thanks everybody for the support - i've emailed the examiner and requested a second interview so we can discuss further. i hadn't condidered some of the points raised in my thread so i'm gonna put that to him.
at the end of the day, all i'm asking for on this part of the issue is for me to be able to feed my daughter, keep her warm and give her a safe place to sleep at night.
isn't that what parents do?
again - thanks all |
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Daughter a University - IPA
