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BankruptC
Senior Member
1030 Posts |
 Posted - 11 October 2008 : 12:58:55
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Hi John,
There have been lots of posts recently from people concerned about having done something fraudulent prior to their BR and therefore concerned about possible prosecution.
Could you (or anyone else) possibly outline possible cases where someone could be guilty of having committed fraud?
One such case is where a loan has been taken out but no, or very few (less than 3?) payments have been made prior to the person declaring themself BR.
What are other possible cases? Could this be the case for credit cards at all? If someone took out a new credit card, I'm guessing so? What about using credit on existing cards just prior to BR?
Can someone be guilty of fraud purely based on the fact that they are in a large amount of debt?
Can someone be guilty of fraud purely based on what their debt was used for?
In any of the above cases does the OR flag up the possible fraud to the authorities or would the credit companied themselves have to make a decision as to whether to take it further?
Sorry to ask so many questions. I know your time is precious so feel free to copy and paste my post back with a simple 'yes' or 'no' next to each question. I just feel a post like this may help to reassure people in general and to help to limit the number of posts on the same topic. I appreciate people may have more specific questions or concerns relating to their own particular case and possible fraud, but hopefully a general post like this may eliminate the majority of worries for people with more straight forward cases.
Thanks again John! 
C. x |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 12 October 2008 : 10:00:21
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Hi BC
I have, as you suggested, cut and pasted parts of your post and my response is below although please remember I am not a lawyer:-
One such case is where a loan has been taken out but no, or very few (less than 3?) payments have been made prior to the person declaring themself BR.
YES, TECHNICALLY THIS IS FRAUD UNLESS 2 / 3 PAYMENTS ARE MADE.
What are other possible cases? Could this be the case for credit cards at all? If someone took out a new credit card, I'm guessing so?
NEW CARDS WITH EXCESSIVE USE AND NO REPAYMENTS PRIOR TO BR CAN ALSO BE CONSIDERED FRAUD.
What about using credit on existing cards just prior to BR?
THERE IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN FRAUD AND IRRESPONSIBLE BORROWING. IF AN EXISTING CREDIT CARD IS MAXED OUT JUST PRIOR TO BR THEN CLEARLY THIS IS NOT FRAUD IN RESPECT OF THE ACQUISITION OF THE CARD BUT STILL CONSTITUTES BORROWING WITH NO MEANS, OR INTENT, TO REPAY. THIS COULD THEREFORE STILL BE CONSIDERED FRAUD BUT WOULD NOT USUALLY BE DEALT WITH BY THE COURTS AS SEVERELY AS IN THE CASE OF NEW BORROWINGS.
Can someone be guilty of fraud purely based on the fact that they are in a large amount of debt?
NO, NOT AT ALL.
Can someone be guilty of fraud purely based on what their debt was used for?
YES AND NO. IF THE DEBT WAS TAKEN OUT ENTIRELY TO FUND A GAMBLING HABIT THEN POSSIBLY, OR TO FUND CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. IF THE CREDIT WAS USED FOR ESSENTIAL ITEMS, LUXURY ITEMS, EXPENSIVE HOLIDAYS, HOME IMPROVEMENTS ETC THESE ARE ALL LEGITIMATE USE PROVIDED THE BORROWER IS IN A POSITION, AT THE TIME OF USE, TO MAKE THE REPAYMENTS.
In any of the above cases does the OR flag up the possible fraud to the authorities or would the credit companied themselves have to make a decision as to whether to take it further?
WHETHER THE OR IS IN THE HABIT OF REPORTING WHAT HE/SHE PERCEIVES TO BE POSSIBLE FRAUD MAY, AS WITH MANY OTHER ISSUES IN BR, DEPEND ON THE INDIVIDUAL OR OFFICE. MY THOUGHTS ARE, AS THEY ARE APPOINTED BY THE COURTS, THAT THEY ARE DUTY BOUND TO REPORT TO SOMEONE, THE QUESTION IS WHO?
MAYBE THE CREDITOR, AS IT IS THEIR PLACE TO INSTIGATE PROCEEDINGS IF THEY SO WISH, OR DIRECTLY TO THE POLICE - MAYBE SUZANNE COULD COMMENT ON THIS IF SHE HAS EXPERIENCED SUCH SITUATIONS.
The main thing to remember is that it's not so much what was purchased, more to do with ability and intent to repay. Even then there will always be exceptions. In the event of redundancy which came out of the blue for instance, this changes your ability to pay overnight and without prewarning from the employer there is no intent.
Hope this helps to some degree.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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Needafriend
Junior Member
United Kingdom
344 Posts |
Posted - 12 October 2008 : 10:08:20
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Thanks John
That has put my mind at ease also. As our problems started in 2006 but we did continue to pay even if it was smaller.
Best of luck to all on here :-)
LOL
Jo x
Your Mother Hen :-)
Please visit my blog for info on how I got here and other information to guide you through from my experience called:
"Mother Hen's New Debt Free Life with Links and added info on Bankruptcy!" available to view at:
http://debtfreejo.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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Almost there
Junior Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 12 October 2008 : 11:40:08
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| Thank you for that John, it has put my mind at rest to a degree, but in my case, I used the loan to consolidate, so didn't spend any of the money on myself, I did it to make my repayments lower, which it has, but, I am still struggling, so in a way it was probably the worst thing I could have done as I will have to use most of my overdraft to live, as the 3 payments won't be completed until the beginning of January so the overdraft will be bigger. Surely that can't be looked on as fraud? In fact my debts will be bigger by the time I go BR! Sandie |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 12 October 2008 : 12:04:03
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Hi
the fact that the loan was taken out to consolidate and this can be evidenced by the various credit statements will be much in your favour.
In the meantime you have to live and all of us can argue that the "light hadn't yet switched on" as far as finally realising that BR is the only way.
Which is your reason for not going BR now.
I'm sure you have nothing to fear but it's always best to get those few payments in as you are planning.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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Almost there
Junior Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 12 October 2008 : 17:33:42
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| Thank you John, sorry to be a pain, but just one more question, what about the fact that I have used credit cards so recently? I have seen posts on here where people have stopped using them months before BR, I think Jo was one of them. (Sorry Jo if I have got that wrong but can't find your post on this one). |
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Needafriend
Junior Member
United Kingdom
344 Posts |
Posted - 12 October 2008 : 19:03:07
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Hi VW
No problem i was in my own DMP that i did with my creditors thats why i had not used my cards anymore.
I hope John can sort out your questions.
Best of luck and no problem:-)
Jo x
Your Mother Hen :-)
Please visit my blog for info on how I got here and other information to guide you through from my experience called:
"Mother Hen's New Debt Free Life with Links and added info on Bankruptcy!" available to view at:
http://debtfreejo.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
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One for John again please-sorry!
