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bassmomma
Starting Member
20 Posts |
 Posted - 04 November 2008 : 22:20:29
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This is a bit long winded, but I think I really need help.
I'm going to lay my cards on the table.
Over 3 1/2 years ago my husband was an employee of a small firm with 3 other employees. His boss decided he was going to retire & put the business up for sale. He had worked for the company for 18 years. He had been his first employee & had over the years learned all aspects of the business. It was a thriving company at that time. He was in charge of the day to day running in the latter 5 years.
Worried about our future should the business sell, we discussed & we decided to re mortgage our home & get a Small Firms Business loan to buy it.
That was 3 1/2 years ago. The business lost a large customer within months of us buying it. The customer was an acquaintance his ex boss & we found out later, he had already decided to close before our purchase. Ie: his ex boss knew this was going to happen but omitted to inform us.!!.
Anyway.
The business moved along at a reasonable pace with making new customers & losing old. It never made a fortune, just enough to cover the bills & wages.
My Husband & I had worked every day for 3 1/2 years without a holiday, only taking a week off work at Christmas time. Last year (Jan 07) we had a big slump in work & we had to make the staff redundant, leaving just me & my husband to carry on. We had struggled for the last 20 months keeping the business afloat, selling personal items to keep things going. This year we have lost a lot of customers due to them going out of business. The phone calls for work had dried up. August was always the worst month of the year for work due to factory holidays.
We found ourselves in the position that there was no money left in the business for wages. The money coming in just covered the overheads & Small Firms Business loan.
We did wind the business down on 22nd of August, fortunately we managed to pay all our suppliers so we owed the bank £18,000, which had a small loans guarantee insurance policy that covered any outstanding debt.
Now
Because the business failed, we are now both out of work and receiving benefits. We knew we could not meet the mortgage repayments. We did immediately inform them of our circumstances and are now nearly into our 4th missed payment. We know that our property of 19 years will shortly be repossessed and we will be homeless.
Also
In May of 2007 we personally entered an IVA which we were paying £431 each month. This was going well until the business failed and we are now 3 months in arrears with this. We have explained that we are only receiving benefits and cannot afford to pay them.
I had told them that it may be in our interest that the IVA failed so that we could apply for bankruptcy. They have been very tolerant and asked whether we would consider a payment break or reduced payments. I said we couldn’t as we were just receiving benefits.
I feel I may have been a bit hasty on that, again any advice at this stage please.
Now this is the bit that I am worried about.
When we took out the IVA we did and still own a little Suzuki carry van, year 1999. They did not put this in their list of assets as we used this for work purposes, even though it is registered in our name. It has no MOT at present. They also did not list our year 2000 Mercedes A140 car as my husband is disabled. And to be honest we did not mention that we own 2 motorcycles as we did not envisage this mess that we are now in, nearly homeless, out of work, and basically now worried a lot.
If we applied for bankrupty and just said the IVA failed and produced their latest statement of creditors would there be an investigation and would we lose the lot and get A BRU.
Or, do any of you think that the IVA would accept a really low reduced payment to prevent us from going bankrupt, bearing in mind that we are only receiving benefits and could possibly only afford about £30 or £40 max per month. They do seem to want us to negotiate.
HELP.
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 04 November 2008 : 22:42:18
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Hi
So sorry to hear of your difficulties. Business is really tough out there and I feel for you.
There are a number of things going on here and I will try to share some thoughts although it is difficult to go through everything in depth on the forum.
1. IVA - it is good that you have already contacted the IP and it may be worth reviewing the IVA HOWEVER depending upon the house situation and the potential for introducing new debt into from possible negative equity may ultimately effect the IVA anyway.
2. Before you review the other options it is important to sort out a new home if the current house is definately going to go. Probably not before Christmas but non the less you need to get the priorities right. GOT TO HAVE A HOME !!!!!
3. Assets not listed in the iVA are excluded, HOWEVER if you were to petition for Br now then they would certainly be lost. SO you need to take advice from a specialist.
4. Should you elect to go down the Br route then there is a specific procedure to follow as you are currently in an IVA. Some courts want termination certificates to show that your IP is aware etc.
While you are not currently Br there are some assets available and there is no reason why these cannot be of benefit to you now in your time of need.
Really would encourage you to have a conversation with a specialist who can give solid advice and ensure you at least get the priorities right and in the right order.
Home
bank account
potential court fees
etc etc etc
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
For a Free Impartial Review before taking the leap call me @ Reviva UK
www.revivauk.com |
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Trolly-Dolly
Average Member
591 Posts |
Posted - 04 November 2008 : 22:47:38
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Oh dear, you poor things have really been through the mill. What upsets me is your home of 19 years. Would you like to keep this?
Can you release equity? Are you having the interest paid on your mortgage by housing Benefit? Can you tell us how much you owe exactly?
There are some brilliant people on here to advise you, so please hang in there. Help will be here shortly.
You can read my blog here;
http://drowningmummy.blogs.iva.co.uk/ |
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Trolly-Dolly
Average Member
591 Posts |
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bassmomma
Starting Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 05 November 2008 : 19:09:23
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Thanks for the replies so far.
For Reviva uk..
I’m a bit unsure in understanding your reply regarding our assets.
How would the assets that we have not declared to the IVA be of benefit to us now?
Can they be traced if the IVA made us bankrupt?
Would we be able to sell them before things get worse as we will most probably have to refurbish a new home if we are allocated one by the council.
If the IVA does proceed in making us bankrupt would they research DVLA records or just go off our recent annual review?
For Trolly Dolly.
We have been told that we will get no help with the interest being paid on our mortgage until after 39 weeks by the benefits agency. The house will definitely be repossessed by then.
There is no equity in the house, but hopefully there will be no shortfall either. Fingers crossed.
Another problem arose this morning when we received the post.
A letter from one of our creditors in the IVA sent us a “Notice of Sums In Arrears” for the original amount that was included in our IVA and the arrears balance.
Our IVA has not yet officially failed, so do we just ignore this letter or will they be able to petition for our bankruptcy?
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Trolly-Dolly
Average Member
591 Posts |
Posted - 05 November 2008 : 23:21:25
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Hiya,
That is such a shame about your home, I am really sorry about that.
I'm not really sure about IVAs (we could not afford one), why not try the site http://www.iva.co.uk and ask the same questions there. You may get a response from Melanie Giles, she is an IP and frequent poster there, and I'm sure she can answer your questions. Also there are many people on there who have had IVAs fail, so they may be able to help.
Wish I could help more, but its an area I'm not familiar with, sorry. Keep posting though xxxxx
You can read my blog here;
http://drowningmummy.blogs.iva.co.uk/ |
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 05 November 2008 : 23:24:19
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Hi
Sorry for the late reply - just got home & not finished yet!.
1. IVA debt. The creditor cannot petition for your Br while you are in an IVA because this affords you legal protection from all crditor action.
2. Assets not identified within an IVA are currently yours. After you go Br they are not so at this point you have the option of using these assets to help start a new life.
************* CRITICAL ******************
you cannot hide assets and you would need to account for their whereaouts and what happened with the money etc etc etc.
So in theory there are some critical costs that you have that the OR would be OK with provided that it is all transparant and done correctly.
costs shown below are quite acceptable prior to Br provided that it is with YOUR money rather than from a credit card or new debt:-
a. bankruptcy fees ( if you need to cover those)
b. relocation to new home costs. Including removal costs, rental deposit, rent in advance, possibly deposit for Bt etc etc
c. potential downsizing of car to an allowable value
e. many people also choose to enlist the help of an Assisted Bankruptcy Service with some of their money and get some value from it rather than simply loose it in a Br.
DVLA is checked for everyone without fail, and it is also an offense under the purjery act to knowingly declare false info. Not a great place to be.
hope this helps
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
For a Free Impartial Review before taking the leap call me @ Reviva UK
www.revivauk.com |
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bassmomma
Starting Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 06 November 2008 : 14:34:02
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Thanks.
I have tried to post this on the IVA site but cannot get registered...
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bassmomma
Starting Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 06 November 2008 : 22:28:49
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Another question.
Whilst we were in business, although knowing that it was struggling, we had a third party who was willing to try to help us put even more money into the business to help it survive.
A two part payment of £3000 and £4000 was given to the business within a few days in January of this year to keep us going.
This was under the understanding that my husbands motorcycle would be taken as security and possession of the said person, as it was the only asset of any value.
DVLA records show that my husband is the registered keeper, but a registration document is no proof of ownership.
Will the OR understand this?
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 07 November 2008 : 00:30:06
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Hi
it would be helpful to have some form of document showing the outline of the agreement and clearly bank statements showing a transfer from their account to yours.
tricky to prove if it was done with cash and no paperwork. The OR may think that you have come up with the idea to try to put an asset out or reach and may get quite grumpy with this.
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
For a Free Impartial Review before taking the leap call me @ Reviva UK
www.revivauk.com |
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bassmomma
Starting Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 07 November 2008 : 10:07:12
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The transaction was a cash deal.
However we still have the business accounts statements that show the dates that the monies went into the business.
Will that be sufficient?
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 07 November 2008 : 20:20:13
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Hi
Sorry for delay , been at court & helped some folks in the afternoon.
On the face of it I don't believe that you could argue that the bike had been sold. There was no contract, the log book is still in your name and I suspect that if you tried that with the OR that he would overturn the transaction as preferential and take the bike back.
really recommend you have some time with an expert to map out what you need to do and when to ensure you stay within the law but are in the best possible position that the circumstances allow
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
For a Free Impartial Review before taking the leap call me @ Reviva UK
www.revivauk.com |
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Help needed please.
