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hairandbeauty
New Member
71 Posts |
 Posted - 23 December 2008 : 00:24:23
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Hi
Couple of questions
I own a franchise hair and beauty salon in England as a partnership with my partner.
However I live 3 miles over the scottish border in Scotland
At present I am up to date with all our personal debt however our business is really really struggling and getting no suport from our franchise group and see no way out.
1) would we need to go bankcrupt in England or Scotland, some people have said england as thats where our main business and the majority of the debts are and others said I would have to do it in Scotalnd as thats where I reside.
2) I am a hairdresser and my partner is a beauty therapist. What would they class as tools of the trade? could that be full hairdressing equipment for me and a full beauty room set up for my wife?
3) I know Im going to have to go bankcrupt so would it just be worth stopping paying the house hold bills this month and saving some of the money to help restart our life
4) We put our own private car into part exchange about 6 months ago and got a car through the business on finance. Would the car have to be taken back? and if so would we be able to use any of the money in our account to purchase a reasonable car as we would need this for work?
5) All our home applicences are built in ie washing machine fridge freezer dishwasher and cooker. Would we be able to keep these or would they have to stay with them being built int |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 23 December 2008 : 09:14:22
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Hi Hairandbeauty.
1) You will need to go bankrupt in the jurisdiction where you have been living for the last 6 months.
2) Tools of the trade are exempted from bankruptcy within reason. What is the monetary value?
3) Which bills were you intending to stop paying?
4) Is the car on HP or a personal loan?
5) Domestic appliances will not be taken.
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
Don't forget the helpline on 0800 078 9367 |
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hairandbeauty
New Member
71 Posts |
Posted - 23 December 2008 : 10:15:55
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1) ok so I need to go bankcrupt in Scotland? is it the same way as you do in england?
2)The monetry value is prob under £1000 for each of our trade?
3)So far we are up to date with all house hold bills? however if I am going to go bankcrupt in Jan or Feb is there anypoint in paying any bills?
4)The car is on HP but I put my private car as the deposit?
Hope you can help as I am so confused.
I tried to speak to a few insolvancy practitioners however they wanted approx £2000 to be able to help me. Although I have that in cash if I pay them that then I wouldnt be able to pay my bills etc? |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 23 December 2008 : 13:35:24
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Hi
I believe the rules are different in Scotland but not too much.
I have been trying to contact the Insolvency Helpline (0845 6029848) as I personally am not convinced that you should declare in Scotland if your business is in England. Perhaps you could try this line also.
in Julian's absence (he's on leave until the New Year) as the value of the tools of trade is quite low there is every chance you may keep them to continue working.
You should keep up the household bills if you intend to keep the property, as you can if there is negative equity. Any unsecured debt repayments can be stopped if you are sure bankruptcy is right for you.
Re the car, the OR will have no interest unless there is equity in it although your chances of keeping it depend on the degree of the monthly payments. However, the finance company may repossess it. If they do and sell at auction, irrespective of where the deposit came from, and there is a shortfall on sale price against the sum you owe then the balance will be added to the indebtedness and included in the bankruptcy.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 23 December 2008 : 14:17:37
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Hi
as I suspected, I have spoken to the insolvency service and you should declare bankruptcy in the county court (that deals with bankruptcy, not all of them do)closest to your business address.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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hairandbeauty
New Member
71 Posts |
Posted - 23 December 2008 : 17:07:13
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Hi
Thanks so much for your help.
We have turned our credit card machine off over the past few weeks to save on fees etc. Would we be able to keep any of the cash we have in the safe or would this all be needed to be handed over to the offical resever?
A friend of ours recently went bankcrupt and was allowed to keep so much for a restart as they lost their home and then had to relocate back to the area of the country they came from, and also were allowed to keep £2000 towards a car as they would need it for work and their existing car was on HP
Also would it be worth withdrawing all off our cash out of our bank accounts and storing else were incase they freeze our accounts etc? |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 23 December 2008 : 21:14:35
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Hi
depending on how much you have in reserve, buy the car and look for the rental asap (only if you don't want to keep your present property). Once the car is acquired return the HP car.
If you can do this swiftly then declare bankruptcy it will be better. By all means withdraw all of the cash buy the car, acquire the rental and meet removal costs plus retain enough to pay bills etc and live on for one month until next you are paid. Then declare bankruptcy. Remember to include any possible shortfall between the auction sale price and the money owed on the car in the unsecured section of your SoA. Also the shortfall in the property.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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hairandbeauty
New Member
71 Posts |
Posted - 23 December 2008 : 22:29:45
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Ive got about 6k in cash tucked away before I pay any bills this month. Is it approx £2500 the majic figure to spend on a car so they dont take it off ya?
Also should I just do this myself or pay the money to a Insovancy practisioner and go through them?
I just thinking too, the fixtures and fittings wouldnt be reselable as they all have the franchise name on would they? |
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 23 December 2008 : 22:57:18
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Just as a note I think it would be wise to keep an accurate record of where the money goes because if the Official Receiver gets a sniff that you have kept cash "under the mattress" then they would not look favourably on this. If they can identify a sum then they will want it back.
I would recommend a car valued at under £2000 because if the official receiver values it at more then they will want the difference back.
You can certainly do this yourself, if you have the time, but if the business is effiectively moving premises, both of you starting up as new businesses ( trading as) before you declare Br, sorting new bank accounts out etc etc etc then you may decide that it is worthwhile to get some help in sorting out the paperwork, dealing with creditors, and representing you with the OR afterwards.
I know that John has spoken to the insolvency helpline but I am not convinced that you would petition for personal Br in England. The Business address would certainly come into it as that is where the partnership is, however it is at the county court for your residential address ( majority of the last 6 months) that counts.
An insolvency practitioner would certainly do a fantastic job for you but I suspect that the services of an assisted bankruptcy company would cover you for more support.
Why not give John a call on the helpline and ask them to recommend someone to have a chat to.
incidentally it is a really tough time for folks in the beauty sector, we are currently helping 4 companies ( although not franchises ) and times are really tough.
take care
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
Real People ..... Real Debt Solutions
www.revivauk.com |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 24 December 2008 : 02:59:30
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Hi
the paragraph below is copied from the insolvency service website:-
Question: What is a centre of main interest?
Answer: Under the EC Regulation on Insolvency Proceedings if you live in a member state, except Denmark, you can only open insolvency proceedings (make yourself bankrupt) in the country where you have your "centre of main interest".
There is no definition of a centre of main interest but the Court will usually regard the country where you carry on a business or earn your living as your centre of main interest. The Court will also consider the place where you normally live, i.e. your country of habitual residence. If you are not employed or self-employed your centre of main interest will be the country you normally live in at the date of the petition.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 24 December 2008 : 08:08:17
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Thanks for that John
I suspect that in the first instance it will be necessary to have the agreement of the bankruptcy clerk at the local court, and it would be a wise move to speak to the local insolvency service to see how they interpret the geography and phrase "centre of main interest".
I will be very interested to see the outcome.
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
Real People ..... Real Debt Solutions
www.revivauk.com |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 24 December 2008 : 10:08:00
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Hi Paul
as various areas of Insolvency appear often to "do their own thing" I would be inclined to agree that a call to the court clerk would be a wise move.
Please let us know how this works out hairandbeauty.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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hairandbeauty
New Member
71 Posts |
Posted - 24 December 2008 : 10:28:43
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Thanks Guys
I certainly will let you know how it goes, Im so scared.
I think we need someone to help us walk through this, as were really scared etc. With regards to keeping tools of the trade do we remove them from the salon before going bankcrupt or do we need to apply to the OR afterwards?
We have jsut had a fellow franchisee who has just gone bankcrupt and heard a horror story and not sure if its normal. She went to court and as soon as they finished in court the court ordered them to the salon with someone to make a list of what was there, they also got her to get all off the staff into the salon so they could interview them and ask if there was any money outstanding, the staff then put the boot in by saying loads of stock and machinery was missing etc and made up loads of stories about the women which I know for definate are all untrue.
Im really really scared now. I really feel for the staff too as I dont know when to tell them or how. Its a mine field |
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 24 December 2008 : 12:20:25
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Hi
At the very least you could do with some telephone support to get a plan together and to work out what to do and when - really to make sure it all goes smoothly rather than how a fellow franchisor experienced it.
It really is all to do with planning - getting your duck in a row - but transparent to the official receiver so there is absolutely no comeback.
perhaps you could call either the helpline or one of the assisted bankruptcy experts on the forum to go over the situation in depth and at least structure a plan of action.
At that point you would be in a better position to understand if you need help or if you will be OK by yourself.
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
Real People ..... Real Debt Solutions
www.revivauk.com |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 24 December 2008 : 14:04:48
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Hi H&B
I agree with Paul.
Why don't you give him a call, his number can be found if you click on the link to his website.
Good Luck
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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Topic |
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HiCouple of questionsI own a franchise
