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forestzoepotts
Junior Member
United Kingdom
171 Posts |
 Posted - 23 March 2008 : 01:39:07
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Hi. My husband and I run a pub on a tenancy agreement with Punch Taverns. Evrything is in his name both for the business and personally ( I do not have a bank account and do not work for pay although I keep the pub going). My husband is self employed through the pub and 3 months ago took a full time job to try to get more money in just to keep the pub going. I run the pub during the day. We have been here about 18 mnths and have racked up huge amounts of debt as the pub is losing money hand over fist despite everthing we have tried to keep it going.
The brewery are not interested and just want their rent. We are cutting back on everything possible and are now amassing CCJs v v quickly through companies who we have broken hp agreements with (even though they have had their equipment returned to them they are still pursuing us for the full amount they would have got under the lease agreements over term).
Some companies have been great eg British Gas who are allowing us topay £500 per month for electric even though the bill is £700 pm so keeps mounting, but some are just hounding us even when we have tried to make arrangements. Punch have been one of the worst and have actually sent the bailiifs in and charged us for the privelige because they thought we were trying to with hold rent when we hadnt taken even enough to pay that.
We have been asking the brewery for help for nearly 6 months and we have been virtually ignored.
within the first 12 months we were here it was clear we had made the wrong choice and we sold our house and pumped the money into the business but this only staved off the situation and debts are now huge. We have not been able to pay the VAt bill which is now at around 20k and we understand that they willclose in soon.
We made aloss over the 1st 12 months of around 22k and do not draw anything from the business. We have now accepted that ater pumping in over 100k it is time to cut our losses as we are never going to get this back or make the business viable.
How do we stand with the stock we own, my husbands wages as we understand b/acc will be frozen ( he also has 2 pensions from the army and post office paid into the bank) fixtures and fittings, winding down the b usiness as we are sposed to give 6 months notice, and how to we get on with the OR statements as presenlty our home is above the pub and so we do not know a) where we will live and b) what the bills are likely to be even if we can find somehwere to live.
Thanks for your advice in adavnce |
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melanie_giles
Senior Member
1191 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2008 : 09:36:58
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Hi there any welcome to the forum
I am afraid that in my professional life I see many couples like you who have tried to run a successful pub business, and in reality have found that it is a losing battle - especially when you do not have the support of the brewery who seem far more interested in getting a premium payment from you up front to fund to purchase the lease, than providing ongoing support.
It now seems time to pull away from this loss-maker and move on, and if you decide to declare yourselves bankrupt, the stock that you own will form part of the bankruptcy estate - but in reality is unlikely to be worth much. It might be sensible for you to employ the services of a valuer to ascertain the value of fixtures and fittings, and check out the terms of the lease to ensure that the brewery has not lien over them.
Your ultimate priority now has to be the future, and firstly finding somewhere to move to - where you may need to put down a rental deposit - and then finding alternative employment. I would have this in place before you advise the brewery of your plans, and try to continue trading until then. Do be sure, however, that all stock that you purchase in future can be paid for from trading profits. |
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AlanO
Junior Member
United Kingdom
259 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2008 : 09:48:08
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Hi Forestzoepotts
Sorry to hear of your plight - as you are well aware you are not the only couple to be suffering at present - a combination of smoking ban and the brewerys unrealistic rents are hitting many.
On Thursday I finalised a statement of afffairs with a former Punch tennant publican and now she has a clean start - this was after 8 years in the trade.
The key to succesfully managing the exit is to plan.It is essential that you ensure that you are best placed for the future and have a roof over your head.
Whilst Punch do appear to take a hardline they are also pragmatic and the legal team that tends to deal with forfieture are reasonable.
You do need professional advise, and this should be taken early whilst there is still time to plan.
All the best alan
www.debtdr.co.uk
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2008 : 12:11:27
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Hi Forestzoepotts
As Melanie says it is no doubt time to draw a line under this experience and plan for the future.
Clearly the start of County Court action and bailiffs from your own landlords means that time is running out quickly. You therefore need to plan carefully what will happen and when.
While this means the end of the business you will at least be allowed to conclude this with dignity and control rather than losing these valuable things.
It is good news that your husband has already got a job because if you can find an alternative place to live then this is a GOOD START to a new ( hopefuly less stressful future).
You may also find that after the dust has settled Br may not be the only choice although it seems like it at the moment.
Again careful planning and "putting your ducks in a row" are so so important right now.
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
www.revivauk.com |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2008 : 21:03:37
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I agree with Melanie, Alan & Paul,
Draw a line on the pub and move forward with a new less stressful life.
I would advise you seek some advice and as Paul says Bankruptcy may not be your only option, May i suggest you contact Melanie Giles and her team as she will be able to point out all your options.
I hope this helps.
All the best.
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk |
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AlanO
Junior Member
United Kingdom
259 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2008 : 11:16:29
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Hi forestzoepotts
Do you know if the bailiff instruction by the Brewery was part of Landlord distress action or for them to simply ascetain fixture and fitting and stock worth?
All the best alan
www.debtdr.co.uk |
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forestzoepotts
Junior Member
United Kingdom
171 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2008 : 16:16:10
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the bailiff came to seize stock but we managed to pay him off, that was a while ago now but just sums up punchs attitude. They have already admitted that they dont care about other bills as long as they get their rent.
Our situation is that they own the vast majoority of the fixtures and fittings and we rent them off them. We own stock, glassware, crockery cutlery and a few appliances plus whatever we have bought for the business.
We accept that we will lose these and just need to set about finding somewhere else to live quickly before the brewery foreclose for good which we have a feeling is in the pipeline.
With all the debts we feel bankruptcy is the way forward and would prefer to do this and start again rather than have to give 6 months notice and still be having to pump money into the business in the meantime, good after bad. |
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sue09
Junior Member
175 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2008 : 16:27:55
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Hi,
just to say, we are in the same postion, you are not on your own, we have been in are current pub for 8 years now, and the last 3 years with an iva, which we can no longer keep up with the payments, we will be speaking with one of the gentle men/ladies on this forum soon, and i must say it surly helps to know there are people out there who are willing to help and advice.
but i am looking forward in going to bed and not to worry about the next bills. we have been in the trade for nearly 30 years and things have realy change for our trade. it is very important to make sure you have somewhere alse to live and a job, before you tell the brewery,
look at the web site of the professinals here and get in touch with them it will sure help you.
wishing you all the best, and dont forget your not on your own. |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2008 : 17:02:14
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Hi Sue,
Thank You for your contribution it is always good to hear from people in a similar position as it helps with the lonely feeling that goes hand in hand with being in debt
All the best
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk |
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AlanO
Junior Member
United Kingdom
259 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2008 : 17:06:28
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Hi forestzoepotts
As Sue mentioned really is best to get an expert involved to work through the best solution for you and enable a life after being a publican
All the very best alan
www.debtdr.co.uk |
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Bear
Junior Member
183 Posts |
Posted - 20 April 2008 : 22:02:42
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Hi,
My wife and I were publicans with Punch until 25th Jan 08, eventually it all got too much and we walked out- it was a bit more considered and planned than that though! We went BR and are now trying to start again.
Closing the pub and going BR was the best thing we ever did and we have more money on benefits than we did working all those hours...
The best piece of advice we got was RENT A HOUSE WHILST YOU CAN, this is important - we are now in a 3 bed semi in a nice area with the rent being 100% covered by housing benefit, if we didn't rent first we could have been in a tower block for the forseeable future...
Good luck...& just do it- you won't look back! |
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 20 April 2008 : 23:00:27
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2 different outcomes from the same start point.
Option 1. Keep struggling on with the phone ringing and letters arriving daily. Bailiffs and even High Court Sherriffs. Brewery demanding cash on delivery and even threatening to take back the lease.
You are not sure what to do or who to call. WHo to pay next or what to do for the best. Fear and despair are there every day and there seems no way out but to carry on and hope for the best. You know you are drowning but don't know which way is up.
Option 2. Get a Plan. Identify the outcome you are looking to achieve and plan to achieve it. get help achieving this outcome by getting someone else to deal with the aggravation and stress while you deal with the important things - HOME, FAMILY, FUTURE.
I help 3 new pubs each month and the situation is almost the same with each. A massive downturn in trade because of the smoking ban, and the cheap alcohol from Asda etc, plus increased costs.
this leaves you with nowhere to go.
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
www.revivauk.com |
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publican bankruptcy
