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| nathan 2 |
Posted - 16 August 2008 : 10:19:44
will it be frowned upon if I sell my car (worth around £2,500) to pay off family debts and then get a company car from work, hence reducing my income by about £500 per month? Can the OR make me opt out of the company car scheme and purchase another cheap run around? Also, will they make my wife sell her car (worth about £3,500). She does not work but we have a 3 month old baby |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| nathan 2 |
Posted - 19 August 2008 : 12:42:19
Thanks for all the help and advice. (and sorry for the late reply... Work, work, work as always).
I am going to speak to my wife re: the job move as it does seem pointless to be working so hard and so far away just to earn a disposable income that will be taken from me!
More time at home would be fantastic and to get enough time to become a regular at the gym again would be super (all be it at my own expense).
Could anyone else offer guidance on what the OR may allow me as an allowance for holidays and clothing provisions please? maybe if someone is in the same situation as the only wage earner in a family, then they may be able to pass on their experience.
Many thanks.
Also, I have noticed on the forum that if a loan or credit card had been taken on, but say, 6 months of payments had been made before declaring BR (then it may not be looked at as being fraudulent and may not instigate a BRU. Do you think that the same may apply with the money that I repaid my mother in law a couple of months ago if enough time passes prior to me becoming BR?
Nathan. |
| Trolly-Dolly |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 22:10:22
Hi Nathan,
I am going back to work part-time in a couple of weeks (we go BR in 9 days). I was previously fulltime with daughter 1, just so that I could pay creditors. However as long haul crew such precious times with her were lost. I honestly dont care if the OR frowns upon me going part-time less than a week after BR. There is no way I'll do full time with 2 little girls. I'd rather quit my job!
I know you want to do the right thing. But right for who? The creditors? or you and your family?
When I first found these boards I chose the former. Now its 100% the latter.
You can read my blog here;
http://drowningmummy.blogs.iva.co.uk/ |
| Skippy |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 21:25:04
I don't know if it makes any difference but my OH works so I'm not supporting him.
Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, today is the present, a gift to make the most of.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
| nathan 2 |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 21:07:31
That doesn't sound too sentimental at all and makes a lot of sense.
I am thinking along the same lines though. I grew up with my dad (also working in construction) working in Norway, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Italy, etc, etc... and he bacame only a disciplinary figure to see on holidays and weekends (depending on his work placement at the time). I don't want my lad to feel the same.
Do you think that they will take into consideration, when evaluating "allowable expenditure", that I am the only wage earner for a family totalling 3 plus the dog?
I mean, how on earth are we supposed to get a holiday on 1 persons' "allowable expenses"? |
| John |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 21:04:05
Hi nathan
I couldn't agree with Skippy more.
I know what it's like to focus on work trying to build a better life for your family.
When younger I was very focused in this way.
My kids are 29 ; 25 ; 17 & 7, in 2002 having been made redundant we sold our house and bought a guest house on the coast. This was, of course, all lost in BR, but for 41/2 years I spent many hours every day with my youngest daughter, something I hadn't the chance to do with the others.
I wish I could turn back the clock!
Of course you bear the responsibility of earning an income but if BR teaches us one thing more than any other it's that there is only so much we need and the things that matter are free.
Back to the plot!
I think your estimate of £700 is about right nathan which will cost you just short of £500.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
| Skippy |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 20:51:22
I certainly wouldn't view it as playing the system or think badly of you. My dad was a lorry driver and spent a lot of time away from home and he told my mum that his main regret was spending so much time away from home. Sadly he was diagnosed with MS when I was 4, so he did get to stay at home, but he was too poorly to be able to enjoy it. That's why I feel that family is so much more important than money. My mum and dad didn't have much, but I they were always there for me, and to me that was the main thing. I hope that doesn't sound too sentimental!
There's only me, my other half and our cat, and OH isn't BR so the holiday, clothing and haircut allowances are just for me. Be warned though, some ORs won't allow a holiday allowance at all. I did try for £50 a month (hey, if you don't ask you don't get!) but it was unsurprisingly reduced!
Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, today is the present, a gift to make the most of.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
| nathan 2 |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 20:35:51
Thanks Skippy.
I work away and so hard for the benefit of my wife and child and so, if the fruits of this are to be taken away, then it makes sense that I work nearer to home for less money, even if that means that my disposable income will be less. The thing is, I don't want to be seen to be "playing the system". I wouldn't be looking to reduce my income if all things were going great (like they were in 2006) so I don't want to be thought badly of!
I would like to be closer to my family though. At present, I have to get up with the alarm at 4am to be on the road before 5am. I get home from work at around 7 to 8pm and so struggle to be bothered to make my own dinner. My schedule is so hectic at times that I have to stay out the night (which my company cover for accomodation) but I would rarely know what to pack myself if I did make my own lunch as I don't tend to eat at set times.
I do have to wear shirts, trousers and ties for work (although as I am a construction manager I tend to purchase from Tesco / Matalan and replace often enough to look OK).
Is the £20 holiday allowance for you or for the whole family? I can't see me being able to get us anywhere other than the back garden for £240 per year... but, i this is what is allowed then that's that!
Again, is the £40 per month for clothing for you or for the whole family? If it is per person, then we should be OK.
The hair cuts are OK, except my better half may have to wait an extra couple of weeks between visits to the hairdressers to accommodate the £8 or £10 per month shortfall.
Thanks for the advice and your time.
Nathan |
| Skippy |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 20:19:14
Sorry, John was quicker than me!
One thing I will say to you is to do what makes you happy. If you will have a better quality of life by working closer to home and spending more time with your wife and baby then go for it. At the end of the day your family come first, and life's too short to look back and think what might have been - I know that from experience.
Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, today is the present, a gift to make the most of.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
| Skippy |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 20:14:40
I cant say for definite what the OR will allow or disallow, but the things that jump out at me are:
Do you need 2 mobiles?
Sky will probably be disallowed as you would be able to pay for this out of your surplus.
Can you claim back any of the petrol?
Spending money will be disallowed as you will be expected to use your surplus.
Lunch / breakfast at work - can you take sandwiches for lunch?
Gym - this will probably be disallowed. I pay for mine from my surplus.
The general allowance for haircuts for an adult is £10 a month.
Window cleaner - I'm not sure if this allowed
Holiday - this may be disallowed. I was allowed £20 for myself.
Clothes - I was was allowed £40 a month, but if you have to wear suits for work you may be allowed this, it's up to the OR.
Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, today is the present, a gift to make the most of.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
| nathan 2 |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 20:14:11
I pay for 2 mobiles because one of them belongs to my wife, who is a full time mother / housewife.
In our house there is my wife, our baby, the dog and I.
My company do offer a work mobile, but I need my own as personal calls are monitored and not allowed.
My travel expenses are catered for, my meals are not, but the figures are included in my income stated.
I could (by changing jobs / locations) reduce my expenditure greatly, but by doing so, I would probably reduce my income by around £30k per annum also. I have looked into working closer to home as I don't see the point of continuing to travel over 1000 miles per week just to earn extra money, when 70% of my disposable income is to be taken. Why not work around home and (with the bankruptcy) take the pay cut that I could never have afforded to take before? This would give me the time that I long for at home with my wife and newborn.
However, I do want to be fair and to recognise that, should it not be for my circumstances, I would not be considering a pay cut and, therefore, will not attempt to withstand the amounts taken from me by the OR.
I just want an end to all this.
Many thanks John
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| John |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 19:45:37
Hi nathan
what is the family make up?
Is there a specific reason for 2 mobiles?
Is 1 of them for work purposes?
Do you not claim any expenses from your employer re fuel/mobile/meals
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
| nathan 2 |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 18:24:36
Thanks for that Skippy.
Your blog makes for interesting reading.
Nice to know that you have got through relatively unscathed.
I am a little worried about your accepted ougoings though as mine look more like this:-
SOURCE PCM
RENT £850.00
HOME PHONE LINE RENTAL £20.00
COUNCIL TAX £140.00
SKY TV £21.00
TV LICENCE £12.00
GAS / ELEC £100.00
T.MOBILE £30.00
ORANGE £30.00
PETROL £900.00
WATER £33.00
LIFE INSURANCE £15.00
CONTENTS INSURANCE £16.00
SPENDING MONEY £250.00
SHOPPING £400.00
LUNCH / BREAKFAST (WORK) £130.00
GYM £25.00
CAR MAINTENANCE £50.00
CAR INSURANCE £35.00
CAR TAX £20.00
DENTAL / MEDICAL PROVISION £40.00
HAIR CUTS £30.00
WINDOW CLEANER £6.50
HOLIDAY £80.00
CLOTHES £80.00
TOTAL £3,325.50
I need a lot of the expnditure as I work away from home and have to stop out on occasion, and travel the rest of the time (hence the large fuel bill). Plus, I am the only wage earner of the family.
The aforementioned leaves me with around £400 PCM disposable, of which I suppose they would be looking to reclaim 70%.
Do you think that they will question my expenditure?
I already know that they will make me get rid of my "spending money", SKY TV and my Gym membership, but what about everything else? If they do make me get rid of the above, that will make my disposable around £700PCM. Will they be happy with 70% of that or will they look to try and make me cut back on more?
I am not blackguarding anything... what's outgoing is outgoing.
Thanks.
Nathan
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| Skippy |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 16:11:24
A BRU is a Bankruptcy Restriction Undertaking which is given in cases of misconduct before BR. It can last for up to 15 years, although a BRU of that length would only be for the most serious cases. If you have a BRU you are still discharged after 1 year, but you are subject to the restrictions of BR (no credit over £500, can't work in certain professions etc) for the duration of the BRU.
If you dispute the BRU, the OR can apply to the courts for a BRO (Bankruptcy Restriction Order), which is generally longer, although still no longer than 15 years.
Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, today is the present, a gift to make the most of.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/ |
| nathan 2 |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 12:56:44
Helo again,
I am the only one going bankrupt.
The cheque had been made out to my wife and had been deposited in our joint account. This is the same account that the cheque had been written from to pay the M-I-L back. I don't know whether she has spent it or whether it's just sat in an account, but my worry is that they will take this from her and she won't have the money to give them.
The £5k that my mother gave us to help was just a straight forward cheque, paid to me into our joint account which I had been hoping to pay back with the sale of my car and the remainder of my wage this month.
I am not too sure when I will have to declare bankruptcy, as I have been keeping my head above water up until a judgement against me at the start of this month for some property development deal that had gone wrong earlier in the year. This has forced my hand and now I am trying to get everything sorted and as tidy as possible before I have to declare BR.
Also. What is BRU? I assume from the context that it is some sort of investigation???
Many thanks again for your time and advice.
|
| John |
Posted - 17 August 2008 : 12:36:00
Hi
ok who is going BR just you, or both you and your wife?
Was the £4K payment made from your account or a joint account?
If it was joint account, who signed the cheque?
I should also say that it's not easy for the OR to reclaim preferential payments to a family member.
The OR cannot investigate too far into your m-i-l's affairs.
If the OR found the returned funds to have been spent then you would be looking at a BRU instead.
So I wouldn't be offering up any info to the inlaws at this stage.
If you are BR at the time of your bonus the net proceeds should all be passed to the OR.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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