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das
Starting Member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
 Posted - 27 June 2010 : 21:34:23
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hi
i am considering going BR . I have looked at iva but my solicitor doesnt think its an option because of paye being owed money .
i have got my self into debt because i started a business 1 year and half ago . [probably the worst time to start ] .my main reason for falling into debt is because i sold of a 50% share in my last business and was due approx £200k from it . this money was to help build my new business . however my old company seem to have done a lot of cooking the books and when the final accounts came through for signing off they where £400k less than expected . my accountant and i knew then it was going to be a long process trying to get the money out , so i had to resign myself that it would be a long time and a lot of money woul have to be spent to try and recoup what is owed .. from that moment my new business spiralled out of control and my back was against the wall . now i owe creditors including paye £250k . i was a sole trader !! i stopped trading in feb this year and my son started a business of a similar nature but on a very small scale . at present i work for him and get a wage . i still have a debtors book of approx £75k but am not sure how much of it is recoverable.. i also have some assets which is mainly machinary the purchase value is worth around £100k but i dont think i will be able to recover that if i sell them .
i know i would not be able to commit to an iva .. my main worry is that my home is valued at £250k and my mortgage is £275k .my solicitor has a valuation report to say this .
my wife and i worry mainly for our home because we have young kids and our mum lives with us .
i have some questions which maybe someone can help me with
1 .. if i go BR can the OR fight for the £200k which i believe i am owed from my last company ?
2 .. can the OR chase my debtors book and sell my assets ?
3 .. if i file for debtors petition BR and give the above info . would the judge sign of the petition to go BR ? or would he send me away and try to arrange an IVA ?
4 .. my wife and i are joint owners on our home . even though it is in negative equity . would it be likely that the OR would offer the BI back to my wife ? if so how much for ? how long does it take to offer it ?
5 .. would the OR force us to sell our home based on the above info ?
6 .. my debtors book , my assets and the possibility of recouping my money owed from my old business adds to £125k more than my liabilies .. i know that figures may not be realsied to that amount . but i do think there would be enough to recover close to what is owed ..
even though this is a personal BR but it really is a business BR.. would it be a BR that a OR would not want to really handle ? would it be in my favour that there is money recoverable ? because normally these days there doesnt be anything available to recoup .
i am really confused right now . i dont have the money to take my old company to the high court , but i dont want them to get of with keeping my money . this was the main cause of my business downfall and i feel very agrieved about it .
i am not saying i dont know anything about BR . but i do feel it is my only option to solve all the outstanding issues that i have . it is my home that is my main concern ..
can someone out there please please help me ??
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2010 : 21:50:35
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1. Who owes you the money, was it a limited company
2. Yes and yes, as you are not trading anymre then you have no need of them
3. No, it is unlikely that with that level of debt and a small regular income that you will be sent away.
4. It is more likely that if your house in negative equity that the OR will offer your BI to you or your wife. If it is in negative equity this will normally be for £1 plus £211 legal fees, However prices are on the rise and at some point you may have positive equity so best to get it sorted as soon as possible.
5. Not on the current valuations if you buy the BI at the easliest opportunity. If you dont and the equity rises to the point of £10,000 or more then the or may force a sale.
6. The OR deals with the case or hands it to an IP as appropriate, The OR has a duty to deal with all bankruptcies if no one else wants them.
Can you explain whta the exact situation of the old company was and what the relationship was, you refer to it as MY old company, was it fully under your control, is it still running etc etc |
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das
Starting Member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2010 : 22:10:20
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hi .
thanks for the reply .
1 .. the debtors book is based on approx 6 businesses owing me money .. none of them are ltd
the old company is the business that i had a 50% share in . it was a 3 way partnership and an a agreement was made for me to resign . i received an initial pay off [ which i started my new business with ] . the agreement was made that when the cessation accounts was prepared that i would receive any monies that was owed to me .. we had management counts previously to the sign off and they where showing at approx £480k plus stock worth £200k . when the final accounts where prepared by the business accountant they showed profit of £180k plus £160k stock . when we started to ask questions from the accountant we where completely stone walled .
the remaining partners are jointly liable for any monies that is owed to me . that was put in the agreement .
the remaining partners have now incorporated . but they are still liable ..
the old business was run like this . i looked after sales , marketing , customer developement and purchasing .
the other 2 partners where resonsible for .
partner 1 .. production and maintanence
partner 2 .. accounts and admin
i didnt like the way the business was being run and i told them i was leaving
3.. how long would it take for the OR to offer my wife the BI ? is it a lengthy process to buy this ?
does my wife have to get the mortage company to agree to this ? |
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2010 : 22:26:28
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Ok so it would seem that the money is legitimtly owed to you.
The OR is always practical, any money owed to you at the date of the bankruptcy order would then be owed to the OR/Trustee, You have nothing more to do with the matter apart from providing the OR/Trustee with the appropriate paperwork that supports the case. The OR/Trustee then looks at whether it is worth pursuing and if it is will apoint solicitors and take it to court if necessary. This is completely emotionless (despite what you may feel towards the previous business partners) it is done purely on a cost versus benefits basis.
BI - This is normally done at about the 6 month to 1 year basis but i must stress that the OR/Trustee legaly has 3 years to deal with the property. It will be processed at the value when it is dealt with but the OR will deal with it as soon as practical, but no guarantees as to how long that will be.
The mortgage company does have to agree but as long as you are up to date or have an agreement t pay arrears then there is not usually a problem |
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das
Starting Member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2010 : 22:45:06
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lets say the value went say £10k over the mortgage value at the time . would the BI still be offered to my wife and would it be offered at 5k or 10k ?
would the BI always be offered to the wife or husband first ?
i have the forms beside me to fill in .. after i fill them in how long would it take for the process to be actually bankrupt ?
would there be a lot of legal forms sent to my home address from the OI ?
would i have to meet the OI many times throughout the process ?
do i have to provide the OI with all bank accounts from the business and personal bank accounts , credit cards etc ?
more or less what i am asking how time consuming is it for the first 4 weeks etc ?
sorry for all the questions but i would like some clarity before i go ahead with handing the forms in .
ty |
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das
Starting Member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2010 : 23:05:37
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hi
do you think BR is my best option ?
ty |
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2010 : 23:16:23
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If the house is jointly owned they would want half the equity, It is always offered to the bankrupt or family member first (this is the simplest and cheapest way of getting it sorted out)
As long as the waiting list is at the local court, ring them and find out. Some have a walk in service so theoretically you could be bankrupt tomorrow if you have the forms and the fee. In most courts you are declared bankrupt the same day you provide the completed forms.
I should point out that the judge may ask if you have sought advice prior to bankruptcy this is as much a protection for you than any kind of hinderence). You can pay for this advice, but equally can get free advice from the CCCS, CAB or national debtline.
There are some forms sent to you by the OR all are designed to be able to be filled in without the need for legal advice (although if you want to you can have someone look them over). There are certain circumstances that crop up in a few cases where legal advice is advised and the OR will inform you if this applies.
Usually only once or twice. Most bankrupts have one telephone interview, given that you have a slightly complicated situation the may ask to see you face to face, do not worry if this happens as it is likely just because it may be easier to explain the situation in person. The OR can ask for as many meetings as is deemed reasonable to complete their duties but as i said for most people just one takes place either in person or over the telephone.
You will be expected to provide whatever you have in your possession if it is needed by the OR, the OR can also ask anyone else to provide what is needed if they have abything pertaining to you, ie, accountants, banks, solicitors ex business partners etc.
Its not that time consuming, most of the time you are just waiting for the OR to do their job.
Ask as many questions as you need to |
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2010 : 23:18:18
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quote:
Originally posted by das
hi
do you think BR is my best option ?
ty
This is absolutly something you have to decide yourself, i can provide information but i will never tell someone what decision they should take, When deciding you should find out about all options including debt management plans and IVAs
Its not something you can easily change your mind about later |
Edited by - debtinfo on 27 June 2010 23:19:12 |
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das
Starting Member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2010 : 23:46:23
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your answers have been very helpful to me .
if i go bankrupt am i allowed to open a bank account for my salary to be paid into ?
if i am allowed to open a bank account do i get a card etc ?
if no to any of the above where do i get my salary paid too ?
would my name be printed in the local papers [ as in my home town ] ? |
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das
Starting Member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 28 June 2010 : 00:38:43
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hi
after i go BR the OR normally contacts the creditors to inform them . right ?
if so what normally can the creditor do about it ?
do they just have accept it and wait for the OR to realise some money from assets if any ?
does the OR send a letter to the creditor to ask exactly how much they were owed ? or do they just write to them to inform them and thats is ?
ty |
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 28 June 2010 : 00:58:45
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Yes you can have a bank account with any one you want, the problem is getting the bank to accept you as a customer, some are better than others, most often recomended around these parts is the co-op cashminder, which is a basic account, no overdraft, but id does come with a nearly fully functional debit card and internet banking
Most bankruptcies are no longer printed in the local paper (they all go in the london gazette) The OR has the discretion to make an exception if they feel it is in the public interest, (for example if you were a local trader who had taken lots of deposits but were refusing to co-operate with providing details, or the OR thought you were lying)
The creditor doesnt have a choice, they are bound by the bankruptcy, they can object to an earlier dischage (few are upheld) and of course they can provide information that they feel may be of use to the OR
They are just waiting to see what is ealised and what their share is (which in many cases is nothing)
If their is to be a distribution to creditors they fill in a proof of debt form to stake their claim |
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das
Starting Member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 28 June 2010 : 12:36:14
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| tyvm |
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das
Starting Member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 28 June 2010 : 12:52:08
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hi again
how can my wife become disasociated with me financially through my bankruptcy ?
she is only associated with me financially through the mortgage ..
in her credit report sometimes i would of been linked to her .
ty |
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