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Karen.kk
Starting Member
12 Posts |
 Posted - 28 February 2011 : 14:51:19
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| If the Insolvency register states that I have been automatically discharged, is that right? My IP has said that the register is often wrong and will not confirm if I am indeed discharged |
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Viki.W
forum expert
United Kingdom
2211 Posts |
Posted - 28 February 2011 : 15:05:16
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Hi Karen,
Is the date of discharge 12 months from your BR court date? If it is, then you should be discharged.
Viki Warbrooke
Vincent Bond & Co
If you would like free advice on all options available and help with your bankruptcy petition please contact me at http://www.vincentbond.com/about_us_Viki_Warbrooke.asp
Please read my experience of debt via my blog at http://vikiw.blogs.iva.co.uk/ |
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Karen.kk
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 28 February 2011 : 15:22:51
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It was 12 months after the date of bankruptcy. The IP is applying to court for an IPO as he now says the mortgage is too high. I signed an ipa and my circumstances have not changed but it appears he has changed his mind now. He will not confirm whether I am now discharged and is saying that the court may well suspend my discharge even though it is stating on the insolvency register that I am already discharged. When I pointed this out, he said that the register is often wrong. Is this the case?
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Skippy
forum expert
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 28 February 2011 : 15:42:16
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If you are discharged from BR then as far as I am aware there you cannot be given an IPA. Unless you have been told that your discharge has been suspended then I would think that you are discharged.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/
Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realise that we cannot eat money.
Last IPA payment made on 28th June 2010 - it's over at last! |
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Viki.W
forum expert
United Kingdom
2211 Posts |
Posted - 28 February 2011 : 15:42:55
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Hmmm, I'm really not sure. I know there were problems with IVA listings incorrect a couple of months ago. Perhaps Debtinfo or Bigal can answer.
Viki Warbrooke
Vincent Bond & Co
If you would like free advice on all options available and help with your bankruptcy petition please contact me at http://www.vincentbond.com/about_us_Viki_Warbrooke.asp
Please read my experience of debt via my blog at http://vikiw.blogs.iva.co.uk/ |
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Viki.W
forum expert
United Kingdom
2211 Posts |
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 28 February 2011 : 21:46:17
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It is not often wrong, there have been a couple of problems but it is right 99% of the time.
Wth automatic discharge it is exactly that Automatic 12 months to the day from the Bankruptcy order, unless the court has suspended your discharge (which you would know about). So i think it is safe to say that you are discharged
BUT
If you have already signed the IPA then the IP can apply to the court to vary it even if you dont agree although it does not technically turn it into an IPO it is basically the same thing
here is the OR's guidance on the matter
31.7.163 Application to court required where IPA variation is disputed
In the event that one of the parties to an IPA wishes to vary it but the other party does not consent to the variation, application may be made to court for the IPA to be varied. Such an application may be made by the bankrupt, trustee or official receiver.
31.7.164 Variation of an IPA by application to court
Any application to court to vary the IPA does not have to be made before the discharge from bankruptcy, but it may assist in recovering arrears if any variation is progressed as soon as possible (see Parts 8 and 9 of this chapter for further information on enforcing an IPA or IPO following default). Variation of the agreement only modifies the IPA, any court order made as a result of an application to vary the agreement would incorporate the terms of the varied agreement, it does not convert it into an IPO. If the official receiver wishes to apply to court for an IPO, he/she should be aware that an IPO can only be made on the application of the trustee, filed at court before the bankrupt receives his/her discharge [note 5]. For further information on applying for an IPO please see Part 6 of this chapter
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Karen.kk
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 02 March 2011 : 17:14:53
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Well, I can't find out from the OR if I am discharged, he said take advice and the IP still says he is going to court to suspend the discharge. He wants all sorts of information such as my employment contract, the breakdown of money when my mothers estate was settled, 3.5 years ago, is this right that I am still having to go into such detail as he took over the case last March? Also, who will tell me if I am now discharged?
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 02 March 2011 : 21:03:06
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| ask the court, they can provide a certificate of discharge |
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glafy
forum expert
436 Posts |
Posted - 03 March 2011 : 07:12:08
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This must be a very stressful time for you Karen.
I do hope that you can get things confirmed soon.
Do let us know of any updates.
"Good things come to those who wait".....I'm a patient person but this is taking the Mickey!! |
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Bigal4787
forum expert
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 03 March 2011 : 15:08:42
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Hi Karen,
It seems to me that in this case the IP/trustee is trying it on with you.
Firstly, the Insolvency Register automatically updates your status at the 12 month point, so 12 months after the BO date, you will have been automatically discharged. You don't get any notification, it just happens.
You say you signed an IPA, which one was it? an actual IPA for £x over 36 months, or just an NTIPA in respect of your tax?
The IP is bandying things about like suspending discharge and IPO's, in an effort to get you to agree to a variation of the IPA(that's if you actually signed a 36 month agrement) without going to court to get one,as obviously going to court will cost money. Additionally, the mortgage payment is mentioned as being too high, did this mean that it kept you out of an IPA, or if you had an IPA kept the monthly payment down?
I'm thinking that as the IP/Trustee is referring to applying for an IPO and suspending your discharge, that you may not have been in a 36 month agreement, as this action would normally be done BEFORE DISCHARGE not once discharged.
Let me know what sort of IPA agreement you signed please.
Big Al
Insolvency examiner with the Insolvency service from April 2008 - July 2010.
If you need help completing SOA's(statement of affairs) or PIQ's(preliminary information questionnaire) if you've been declared bankrupt, or anything else and you're within 30 miles or so of Warrington, then please contact me via my contact details in the expert page for futher details"
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Karen.kk
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 03 March 2011 : 15:38:55
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Well, the IP wanted me to sign an IPA for £60 per month last nov as he disallowed my fuel (which I need to get to work 70 miles per day). I asked him to reconsider & he said he would get back to me. Next on 5th Jan emailed me copy of application to court for an IPO saying I hadnt signed the IPA. I emailed back saying I was still waiting for him to get back to me. He apologised but said if I signed the IPA, he would withdraw the application for an IPO. The grounds of the application were that he didn't think I would be able to continue to pay the mortgage, the house would then be re-possessed and I would have to rent, which would be cheaper than the mortgage. I sent the IPA back and after chasing him twice, he said he had recieved it & would write to me shortly. He then emailed saying that as I had admitted I had surplus income, he would still be applying for an IPO. He wouldn't tell me the court date and I had no sight of any exhibits. I rang the court and found the court date was the following day. I emailed the IP on the day of the court case asking him for the details of the court date and 1.5 hours before the due time, he said he didn't know when the date was as he hadn't heard from the court clerk. The court had told me they had passed the papers for serving back to him 3 weeks previously. The case was adjourned and is now tomorrow. I have spoken to the OR who has now said I ma discharged as they have not recieved anything from the IP but even this afternoon, the IP is still saying that he may well suspend my discharge but now says he wants me to agree to adjourn the case for another 4 weeks. I asked if I could buy the beneficial interest in the house as it is in negative equity (45K) and my husband who is 66 has the onset of vascular dementia. The IP offered to sell it to me for the value of the proposed IPO £14,400. He said that if I paid this, he would withdraw the application to court as long as I continued to pay £60 per month. I do not have the money to pay for this and am now borrowing the money to pay the £60per month. I am so worried about tomorrow. Do you think it is better to ask the judge not to adjoun but hear the case tomorrow?
Also, I am so confused about what is going on with the IP.
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Bigal4787
forum expert
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 04 March 2011 : 14:50:27
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Hi Karen,
Just to clarify matters, when exactly were you declared bankrupt, which would then give your AD date, as this would have a bearing on what has been happening.
I found that this happened a lot with IP's who had been appointed as a trustee. They quite often leave it until the last minute to attempt to get an IPA, and also waste time trying to get the OR to apply for the SOD(suspension of discharge) to save costs, when it should be the IP applying as trustee
Big Al
Insolvency examiner with the Insolvency service from April 2008 - July 2010.
If you need help completing SOA's(statement of affairs) or PIQ's(preliminary information questionnaire) if you've been declared bankrupt, or anything else and you're within 30 miles or so of Warrington, then please contact me via my contact details in the expert page for futher details"
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Karen.kk
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 12 March 2011 : 19:45:25
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I was declared bankrupt on 5th Feb 2010 and discharged on 5th Feb 2011. I went to court on 4th March and even outside court, the IP was telling me that I was not necessarily automatically discharged. I told him that I had spoke to the OR the day before who confirmed that I was discharged and that they had not recieved any paperwork from the IP relating to any court application (even though they had requested it as I had asked the OR before). I signed an Income payment agreement on 5th January 2011 as the IP told me he would suspend my discharge if I didn't and he would apply for an IPO which would be "considerably" more than the £60 he wanted. He arrived at £60 per month as he disallowed my fuel. I need the fuel as I travel 80 miles per day to get to work but he said that was excessive and therefore struck it out. I was threatened and therefore agreed to pay the £60 per month. My daughter pays it for me as I don't have it. The case was adjourned due to my personal circumstances changing (the IP told the judge he wanted more time to look into this, even though he did not want me to submit another I&E sheet when I offered it, 3 weeks before the court date). The next court date is 12th April and as yet, haven't heard anything from the IP even though the judge said he wanted this resolved by then for my sake.
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Bigal4787
forum expert
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 18 March 2011 : 15:05:39
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Hi,
The IP in this appears to have intimidated you into signing up for an IPA, when your financial circumstances clearly indicated that you weren't in a position to do so.
By threatening a SOD(suspension of discharge) he coerced you into doing something you knew you couldn't afford, and I suspect that he knew that by threatening you with the prospect of a SOD, that you would sign, as if you had refused, and told him to apply for a SOD, then with just over 4 weeks before discharge, he would have been hard pushed to get a hearing as it generally takes about 6 weeks to get one(it did when I was with the OR)
As this hasn't been resolved and the matter adjourned, the Judge doesn't appear to have been convinced by the IP's arguments, especially as the IP didn't want to accept your updated I&E. To show that you weren't in a position to sign the IPA on the 5th Jan 11, you'll need to provide some sort of proof of your expenditure on petrol, as this was the basis upon which the IP refused your previous I&E. It would also help if you had any documentary evidence of the IP using coercion to get you to sign the IPA.
And finally, you are discharged, it occurs automatically 12 months following bankruptcy, for the IP to say otherwise is ridiculous.
Good luck!
Big Al
Insolvency examiner with the Insolvency service from April 2008 - July 2010.
If you need help completing SOA's(statement of affairs) or PIQ's(preliminary information questionnaire) if you've been declared bankrupt, or anything else and you're within 30 miles or so of Warrington, then please contact me via my contact details in the expert page for futher details"
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Karen.kk
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 18 March 2011 : 15:46:45
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Thank you for your reply and the time it took to read all of my epic. The IP told me to carry on paying the £60 per month until he has investigated my I&E. I cannot afford to pay it, my daughter is paying it for me. Do I have to keep paying it until he has made a decision? The court date is for 12th April and as yet, I have heard nothing from the IP. Also, can you tell me how long the IP will be my trustee for? Is it a limited amount of time or is it until he has had enough? I have been advised by the insolvency helpline to complain about his unprofessional conduct but is there any point complaining as I don't know what can be achieved. Many thanks & I will go away soon!!!
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Is the insolvency register often wrong ?
