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Michael.77
Starting Member
2 Posts |
 Posted - 03 July 2012 : 22:38:59
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| Is a dog classed as an asset saleable by the courts?? |
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Viki.W
forum expert
United Kingdom
2211 Posts |
Posted - 03 July 2012 : 23:08:31
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Hi Michael,
Is this your pet? Or do you run some sort of dog business?
I certainly wouldn't list your pet as an asset on your statement of affairs.
Viki Warbrooke
Vincent Bond & Co
If you would like free advice on all options available and help with your bankruptcy petition please contact me at http://www.vincentbond.com/about_us_Viki_Warbrooke.asp |
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Niobe
Administrator
United Kingdom
4590 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 06:34:46
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Would it depend upon how valuable it was? I know there have problems in the past with people who have had a horse and have been told they might have to part with them.
Thankfully it's never happened.
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 06:38:00
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| As viki says, it really depends on the use that the dog has been for, That being said even if it is kept a very expensive dog may not have all its care expenses allowed in the IPA calculation |
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 06:49:03
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Contrary to what i said above, it looks like the OR's own guidance has changed recently and i have copied it below
31.10.25a Bankrupt’s own pet animal (inserted March 2012)
It is highly unlikely that the bankrupt’s own pet animal will have any realisable value, unless it has a good pedigree.
If so, the official receiver should, in the first instance, establish if the bankrupt wishes to introduce a third party to purchase the animal from the estate. The third party should arrange for the valuation, conducted by a registered breeder or other specialist, on which the sale price should be based.
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Niobe
Administrator
United Kingdom
4590 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 08:09:13
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I do think it is bad that a family pet can be treated like this, even if it is valuable.
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
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Daniel Griffiths
Junior Member
United Kingdom
268 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 10:09:51
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Hi Debtinfo
Does the manual continue to give guideance should the bankrupt not wish to introduce a third party to purchase the animal from the estate, is this not just an opportunity to allow funds to be volunteered into the estate, I cannot see a court approve of the animal being taken and sold, I did once have a client who had a litter of St Bernards puppies, of which the sale proceeds were captured by the OR however thats because the OR had found out they were for sale on the internet. |
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Niobe
Administrator
United Kingdom
4590 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 10:16:59
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I can understand them wanting proceeds if you are selling puppies but if the dog is just a much loved family pet then I think its a bit harsh.
I used to have a Great Dane and no way would I have parted with him.
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
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Melanie.n
forum expert
United Kingdom
1282 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 10:26:27
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Hi there
There was an instance a couple of years back where a bailiff 'seized' a pedigree dog in lieu of a debt outstanding, due to public outcry as it made the papers, the animal was returned to the owner.
I have never, nor would ever consider removing a family pet. Unfortunately, that only goes for the 'usual class of household pet' dog, cat rabbit etc As for horses they are not classed as household pets but 'livestock' and have sadly come across difficulties where horses are concerned, they have not been 'removed' but the difficulty comes where upkeep/feed etc cannot be included in expenditure allowances. Usually it is possible for a third party to cover the food/stabling costs and the matter is left.
Sadly at the end of the day common sense has to prevail, you cannot expect creditors to go without payment or accept lower payment in cases where perhaps an IVA is proposed whilst costs inculded in the household budget to provide for animals not considered the family pet. But there is usually a solution with a family memeber meeting the costs
Melanie
Melanie Nicholas CertDR
30+years insolvency experience - 23 of which in the Insolvency Service and the past 8 years with a number of IP firms.
If I can be of any help to you in any way or answer any queries, concerns or worries you may have, or with completing the forms for bankruptcy, please do not hesitate to get in touch -I can be contacted via the experts tab
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Niobe
Administrator
United Kingdom
4590 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 17:49:19
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I still think it's wrong where there is a chance that a much loved pet could be taken from you if there was nobody who could make an offer to the OR.
I know if it were me there would be nobody to help out - daughter couldn't afford it and my parents would never know if I went bankrupt.
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 18:53:03
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It still does say highly unlikely though.
Daniel, it doesent say anything else in particular reference, but it is clear that the new guidance moves the pet from being exempt to being a potential asset, so the same rules as other assets would apply ie if it cant be bought by a family member it could be forceablly sold. However like any asset practicalities have to be taken into account, and it does link to the animals as stock section which points out that if an animal was taken then there would be considerable costs involved in securing the animal and caring for it before a sale was achieved so it would near to be worth a fair bit before it would realistically be taken, even pedigree dogs are rarely worth mega bucks.
It is only a guess but i think maybe they have changes the possition from exempt to realise if worth it, not to cask all the people that have true pedigree pets but rather the ones that would use it as an excuse to keep other animals. For instance what is the legal definition of pet? if i say had the last surviving member of a species of turtle could i say that was a pet regardless of its worth,
In my time as an examiner i have seen genuine cases of horses, cows, exotic birds, reptiles and a small monkey claimed as a pet, it is hard to know where to draw the line |
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Daniel Griffiths
Junior Member
United Kingdom
268 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 19:14:30
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| Thanks Debtinfo, as normal a very good informative reply, |
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Niobe
Administrator
United Kingdom
4590 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 19:39:43
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It is each to his own as to what constitutes a pet - I'd even include a horse as that (if I had one!!)
I would argue that pedigree dogs are not worth mega bucks - trust me - some of them are!!
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
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Daniel Griffiths
Junior Member
United Kingdom
268 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 20:11:00
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| Like Great Danes, I guess they are almost a horse. |
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Niobe
Administrator
United Kingdom
4590 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 20:24:07
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He was Daniel! Had he have made fully grown then he his head would have been at least up to my chest and I am 5"4. His father was that big (head wise)
Sadly he only made 13 months due to a very rare disease (thankfully covered by insurance)
We have had rescue dogs ever since!!
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
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year 2029
Average Member
590 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2012 : 21:32:25
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Obviously, the extreme the OR would have to take into account, would be the likelyhood of selling an expensive pet in a reasonable time frame.
Sale price minus costs in keeping an exotic pet until sold, plus the distress to pet and family, and has been said public outcry.
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Views expressed are my own personal views, based on what has happened during my own BR process unless otherwise stated.
Professional advice should always be sought. |
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Is a dog classed as an asset saleable by the courts ?
