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dazed and confused
Junior Member
United Kingdom
475 Posts |
 Posted - 31 August 2008 : 23:20:58
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Dear Expert
Would it be possible for me to have the OR meeting over the telephone from abroad e.g go to Court, then go abroad, then do the OR phone call from abroad?
I am intending on going abroad for at least 1 year, possibly longer.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Richard. |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 31 August 2008 : 23:42:08
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Hi
yes, in principle, that is possible as long as it's agreed in advance. That is, go BR then immediately contact the OR office to explain and give your contact details. Many of the OR interviews are held over the phone in the UK and there should be no reason why this cannot be done if you are abroad.
However, I would say that if the OR was to find anything in your case that caused him concern he has the power to insist that a subsequent interview is held face to face.
So if you feel your case may not be straight forward I would think hard before coming to a decision.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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dazed and confused
Junior Member
United Kingdom
475 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 18:10:42
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Hi! Thanks for your reply!
My problem is that I do not wish to go BR now - I am currently just entering into a DMP with Payplan and intend on going to Canada for 1 year on a Working Holiday Visa in January 2009. I have been granted a 1 year Career Break from my work also. My partner is Canadian and she is back in Canada now. She had to leave the UK in May 2008 as her passport and Visa had expired. As I am 30 years old, this is the last year that I can get a Visa to enter Canada and be able to work legitimately. If things go well in Canada and I am successful in getting a decent job, me and my partner intend on applying for me to be come a Permanent Resident of Canada and me possibly not returning to the UK.
If I were to go BR now, I do not feel I would be able to go to Canada at all. I am currently in the process of saving money for the trip and paying for flights, insurance etc. I do not feel that if I were to go BR now I would be able to do this. I also intend on selling my car before going to Canada to fund the trip.
My rough plan is to enter into the DMP, continue saving what money I can, sell my car and any other possessions I have, finish work in early January 2009 and then to go BR just before I fly out to Canada late January 2009.
Is this realistic?
Am I doing the right thing?
How is the OR likely to see this?
What are the possible repercussions for me?
Could they stop me going to Canada at all?
I am really worried that they might see my trip and me selling my car and other minor posessions as being reckless or something?
Ideally, I would prefer not to have to go BR as I see it as a last resort. I was initially going to enter into an IVA but due to the Canada trip I could not realistically commit to being able to pay into it each month from Canada, especially as yet I do not have a job sorted out there.
I do feel bad about my debt and I know some people will see it that I am trying to run away from the situation or the consequences but I am not. If I were not going to Canada I would probably not be considering BR, but I see no other option. I have wanted to do this trip for about 10 years now and having my partner out there makes it even more important. Having this debt (£45,000) has held me back and stopped me from doing so much over the past few years as I have always felt obliged to pay it and it was only in the past few months that it dawned on me I was never going to shift it and now I feel that I just need to be free of it and get a fresh start. I have learnt a lot from the las few months and would never let myseld get into such a situation again.
If any Experts can give some advice that would be much appreciated.
I tried calling earlier and was told I would get a call back but as yet I am still waiting.
Regards
D & C
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 19:11:24
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Hi D & C,
I think the issue here is that the OR examines your conduct prior to and during your BR. If the OR feels you've "engineered" your BR, he'll likely throw the book at you (BRO). Not paying your creditors so you can fund a trip to Canada (whatever the reasons) is not something I would advocate. In addition, you'd need to check with the embassy to see if a BR would affect your visa application.
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
Don't forget the helpline on 0800 078 9367 |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 19:23:07
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Hi D & C,
I've been having a bit of a think on your situation.
You may not like this, but I believe what you are planning to do is borderline fraud. I suggest you have a re-think. If you need to go BR, then do it NOW and go to Canada after. If not, you could potentially be looking at 6 months at Her Majesty's pleasure.
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
Don't forget the helpline on 0800 078 9367 |
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dazed and confused
Junior Member
United Kingdom
475 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 22:07:46
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Hi Julian
What you have said is very worrying indeed. I really don't know what to do now?!
Yes I understand that the OR could see my situation in a bad light, but could it really be considered to be fraud?! Surely people have done a lot worse things? What difference does it make in the eyes of the OR if I go BR now or in 4 months time?
I have checked with the Canadian Embassy and there is no problem with getting a Visa once BR.
I do not feel that I am engineering BR. As I said, I see it as a last resort and ideally I would like to get a job sorted out in Canada before going out there which indeed I am going to try and do, in which case I may even be able to continue paying into the DMP. I think I am being realistic by realising there is a chance I might not be able to sort a job before going out there or that when I am out there I cannot get a job straight away which allows me to pay a reasonable amount into the DMP from Canada, in which case I feel that going BR before going out there is a strong possibility.
I have seen posts from other people on this forum who have mentioned going BR and then going abroad and no one has said they would be committing fraud, so why is my case any different?
I feel like I need to speak to someone about this over the phone - is there any chance I could speak to an Expert on the telephone about this?
Regards
D & C. |
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 22:20:05
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Hi d&c
do you intend to use any further credit between now and when you move abroad?
Either way I will contact Julian tomorrow to discuss your position.
I'm not sure which part of your plan may be risky to carry out so of course I need to establish Julian's thinking on this.
If you have already called the helpline today and not yet received a reply I'm sure you will get a call sometime tomorrow.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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dazed and confused
Junior Member
United Kingdom
475 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 22:27:17
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Hi John
Thanks for your reply!
Not at all - I cut all my Credit Cards up a couple of months ago and have changed bank accounts etc. - I did it all in anticipation of entering into an IVA but then I was talked out of an IVA on this site and the IVA.co.uk site due to the uncertainty of my future income and it was strongly suggested that I consider either a DMP or BR!
I seem to be getting lots of conflicting messages!!!
I am very dazed and confused and very worried now...
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dazed and confused
Junior Member
United Kingdom
475 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 22:43:44
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What are my other options?
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 03 September 2008 : 23:49:54
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Hi
unfortunately your desire to move abroad, whilst understandable in the circumstances, is the problem due to the uncertainty of your earnings and / or your eventual return.
You can't do DMP or IVA long term because of your plans.
Further, in DMP, as in IVA, there is quite a strict expenditure level to meet your basic needs. Any disposable income you may have would have to be paid towards the arrangement thus voiding the possibility of you saving money for your planned trip. You will have to provide wage slips in either scenario and so your DI will be determined by the evidenced income and the DMP / IVA guidelines on expenditure. 100% of the DI is required for either arrangement.
Therefore I'm not sure how you have calculated that you will be able to save money and enter the DMP with Payplan.
In BR you retain more, but by no means all, of your DI but the assets you plan to sell would likely be claimed by the OR either soon after BR or at the time of your notifying him of your move.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 04 September 2008 : 11:16:04
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Hi D & C,
To clarify my thinking, I understood from your fist post that your plans were to go into a DMP to save money for your trip (at the expense of your creditors) and dispose of assets to help with this (again, at the expense of your creditors) with a view to going BR a couple of weeks before you fly out.
Not using any further credit at this juncture is a must, and your further clarification has helped me identify what you are trying to achieve. Suffice it to say that your further clarification has helped me identify that this won't be seen as fraud as you now intend to continue with the DMP whilst abroad.
However, I agree with John that this plan may not be as easy as you think and it would be far better (in the long run) to go BR now.
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
Don't forget the helpline on 0800 078 9367 |
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dazed and confused
Junior Member
United Kingdom
475 Posts |
Posted - 08 September 2008 : 11:40:27
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Dear John / Julian
I have been thinking some more about the situation I am in regarding the above and I am very very worried now. I didn't sleep at all last night due to worrying.
Would I be better off to go BR now and forget about the DMP altogether?
Or, to continue with the DMP and make a decision about whether to go BR closer to the time based on whether I have managed to secure a job out there etc.?
I really really don't want to get into serious trouble with the OR.
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John
New Member
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 08 September 2008 : 13:33:21
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Hi D&C
at the end of the day you need to do what's best for you. If going BR will allay your fears then go ahead by all means. From our telephone conversation I thought that would compromise your ability to fund the trip in January.
Now that you have been given the run down on both scenario's the decision has to be what's best for you.
www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
0800 078 9367 |
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dazed and confused
Junior Member
United Kingdom
475 Posts |
Posted - 08 September 2008 : 13:53:52
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Hi John
Thanks for your reply and sorry for bringing it up again. I am just finding it very hard to deal with all of the uncertainties of my situation.
As it stands, the only things which are certain is that I am entering into a DMP and planning on going to Canada for 1 year at least in January 2009 to work and to be with my long term girlfriend. Over the next few months, I will be contacting various employers in Canada to try and secure a job out there before going. If I am not successful in getting a job offer before going I do not think I will be able to commit to paying into the DMP from Canada. Therefore, BR would probably be my only option to deal with my creditors before I leave, as I would not wish to go abroad and let the DMP fail, neither would I want to 'just disappear' on my creditors - this would just be wrong. I feel that if I were to go abroad and get a fresh start the right thing to do would be to deal with my debts correctly and legally and be upfront and honest and it seems BR is the only option for doing so.
Yes I do feel that if I were to go BR now it could potentially compromise my trip but I am still really worried about the possibility of me being accused of fraud or a potential BRU / BRO if I were to go BR just before leaving. What is the likelihood of this?
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dazed and confused
Junior Member
United Kingdom
475 Posts |
Posted - 08 September 2008 : 14:15:38
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Sorry, me again...
If I was to go BR now would the OR look unfavourably upon my intended trip to Canada in January 2009? Even if it is to be with my partner and I have job prospects out there?
I expect that if I were to go BR now I would have to pay into an IPA. Would the allowances for food / fuel etc. be higher than in a DMP?
Thanks
D & C... |
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JulianDonnelly
Junior Member
United Kingdom
325 Posts |
Posted - 08 September 2008 : 16:05:31
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hi D&C,
I doubt the OR will have an issue with your trip, especially if you've managed to secure work.
In a DMP, usually 100% of the DI is taken, where it would only be a maximum of 70% in BR giving you a contingency fund.
Julian Donnelly
Spokesperson for www.Bankruptcyhelp.org.uk
Don't forget the helpline on 0800 078 9367 |
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OR meeting over the telephone from abroad?
