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chris468
Starting Member
4 Posts |
 Posted - 12 January 2009 : 18:58:32
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My wife currently owes a creditor £200,000. Unfortunately this debt arose from fraud and she is currently serving a custodial sentence. We have a joint mortgage, she has no other assets. The amount owed on our mortgage is approx £161,000 and our house was valued at £175,000 last summer. On Saturday I received notice from the creditor that they are going to the High Court in February in order to seek a charge on the property. In this notice they did not specify any valuation of our home. My wife has several other debts which amount to £8,000.
I have recently retired and have received a lump sum payment. My question is what to do next? I have the means to buy my wife''s ''beneficial interest'' out of the property when a charge is made, however, I am reluctant to do so unless title of the property transfers to me alone. (which incidentally my wife agrees to) Is it the case, by buying this ''beneficial interest'' that title automatically transfers to me? I am just worried that other creditors could come along at a later stage and put further charges on if ownership remains joint! Would it be better to do nothing until either the creditor forces my wife into bankrupcy or she declares herself bankrupt. I am so sorry there are so many questions, I just need some guidance. I would appreciate your help! |
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Needafriend
Junior Member
United Kingdom
344 Posts |
Posted - 12 January 2009 : 19:27:02
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Hi Chris and welcome
Firstly i am sorry to hear about your current situation, i think however in this instance that a call to our helpline may be in order as they have more knowledge than i do and can go over your options in much better detail on a one to one.
So here is the number 0800 078 9367, do give them a call if they are busy leave a name and a contact number and someone will get back to you.
I do hope that you get this sorted out.
Jo
x
Needafriend says:
Just always remember one thing, Your not alone, your not the first and you wont be the last.
23 Weeks down
29 to go
For more info on how i have come through bankruptcy and for links to help with filling out the forms, I&E, Car Valuations, etc, etc, you can read my blog here called:~ Needafriend's Info on Bankruptcy :-)
http://debtfreejo.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 12 January 2009 : 23:12:51
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Hi
In these interesting property times I suspect that creditors will rarely petition for bankruptcy because it costs them money and they cannot be sure of the equity value in your property.
If the creditor is succesful in putting the charge on the property this will be an ongoing problem.
You therefore need to act quickly to resolve the issue.
Options.
Buy the beneficial interest
Buy wife out of property all together
however wife stills has a huge problem and you have a time issue with the charging order situation.
Is the court hearing the interim charging order of the final charging order and how much is it for?
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
Real People ..... Real Debt Solutions
www.revivauk.com |
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chris468
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 13 January 2009 : 04:21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Reviva UK
Hi
In these interesting property times I suspect that creditors will rarely petition for bankruptcy because it costs them money and they cannot be sure of the equity value in your property.
If the creditor is succesful in putting the charge on the property this will be an ongoing problem.
You therefore need to act quickly to resolve the issue.
Options.
Buy the beneficial interest
Buy wife out of property all together
however wife stills has a huge problem and you have a time issue with the charging order situation.
Is the court hearing the interim charging order of the final charging order and how much is it for?
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
Real People ..... Real Debt Solutions
www.revivauk.com
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chris468
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 13 January 2009 : 04:46:51
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Hi Paul,
Firstly thank you for posting a reply.
I have an interim charging order dated 6th January and it appears that the next court hearing is to be on the 9th of February whereby I assume that the final charging order will be sought. This hearing is to take place at the Royal Courts of Justice, London.
The amount mentioned on this interim order is the £200k that my wife owes, there is no reference to the available equity in the house or amount of beneficial interest sought. Bear in mind at this time I am very sceptical if there is any equity in the house at all following months of house price decline.
You mention buying the beneficial interest, how can I do this when I do not know what the amount is? Do I wait until after the court has applied the charge, will I know how much it will be at that stage? If I do buy the beneficial interest, do I then have full title to the house that prevents a further creditor of my wife applying for yet a further charge?
Again, many questions, my head is in a spin, not knowing which way to go with all this. Any help/advice greatly appreciated!!
Chris
quote:
Originally posted by Reviva UK
Hi
In these interesting property times I suspect that creditors will rarely petition for bankruptcy because it costs them money and they cannot be sure of the equity value in your property.
If the creditor is succesful in putting the charge on the property this will be an ongoing problem.
You therefore need to act quickly to resolve the issue.
Options.
Buy the beneficial interest
Buy wife out of property all together
however wife stills has a huge problem and you have a time issue with the charging order situation.
Is the court hearing the interim charging order of the final charging order and how much is it for?
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
Real People ..... Real Debt Solutions
www.revivauk.com
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 13 January 2009 : 08:09:27
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Hi
The only way to really sort the issue out before the £200k charge hits is for your wife to petition. This may be difficult while she is still in prison.
If the charge is placed on the house then the second charge holder will own your wife's share of the equity up until the house is either sold or refinanced. Even if she goes Br at that point then the security of the charge will remain in Br unless the house was reposessed, sold or remortgaged.
I would encourage you to speak to the helpline this morning.
You both need to act today as you haven't got any spare time at all.
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
Real People ..... Real Debt Solutions
www.revivauk.com |
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chris468
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 13 January 2009 : 11:00:50
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Hi Paul,
Yes bankrupcy will be difficult. When a charge is placed, if I buy it out will that then stop further charges being made in respect of my wife's debts.I see no point buying it out if it then paves the way for additional charges.
With this charge, will it specify an amount or just state half of available equity in the house.
With the current downturn in house prices, would it be prudent for me to get it valued and if favourable, then buy out this charge.
Regards
Chris
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Needafriend
Junior Member
United Kingdom
344 Posts |
Posted - 13 January 2009 : 13:40:40
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Hi Chris
I do hope that you get this sorted out and soon, let us know what happens and remember we are always here for you. 
Jo
x
Needafriend says:
Just always remember one thing, Your not alone, your not the first and you wont be the last.
23 Weeks down
29 to go
For more info on how i have come through bankruptcy and for links to help with filling out the forms, I&E, Car Valuations, etc, etc, you can read my blog here called:~ Needafriend's Info on Bankruptcy :-)
http://debtfreejo.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/
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Reviva UK
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2452 Posts |
Posted - 13 January 2009 : 15:48:51
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Hi
have you managed to call the helpline today yet, you really haven't got spare days to waste if you are hoping to puchase the BI from your wife considering the challenges with paperwork etc.
Paul Johns
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
Reviva UK
Real People ..... Real Debt Solutions
www.revivauk.com |
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pix1
Average Member
689 Posts |
Posted - 13 January 2009 : 19:36:00
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chris468,
This is a very tricky situation requiring quick action. I do not really know exactly how to proceed but I have put this all down in the hope that it helps in some way. I will let you know if I come up with anything more helpful in the very near future.
1) Your wife would need to be bankrupt for you to buy her beneficial interest in the property concerned.
2) She may or may not be able to petition bankruptcy from prison.
3) The creditor may not have a case IF your wife's custodial sentence means that the debt is written off after she is released.
4) As far as I know you cannot write off fraud debts in bankruptcy.
To begin with, my own experience may be relevant.
In my own bankruptcy, a creditor obtained a County court Judgment against me a few months before I went bankrupt. That creditor applied to the court for an INTERIM CHARGING ORDER shortly before I petitioned bankruptcy. The court concerned granted that ICO. Once the creditor, listed on my bankruptcy statement of affairs as an unsecured creditor, had been notified of my bankruptcy details I received a 'General Form of Judgment or Order from the court stating that the ICO was discharged. Hence, no charge was placed on the property and the creditor continued as an unsecured creditor in my bankruptcy.
I see no reason why - if your wife CAN petition her own bankruptcy - she should not be treated any differently to myself in terms of the interim charging order. However, I believe she would need to petition her bankruptcy BEFORE the ICO becomes a full charge on the property. Its interesting as to whether any judge would grant a £200,000 charge on a property that is worth less than £200,000 and where a mortgage company first charge holder has a £161,000 interest in it. Perhaps they would successfully object to the charge becoming permanent.
I have searched and will continue to search the Insolveccny Service webaite and elsewhere to see if your wife can, physically, petition bankruptcy from prison. She may not be able to use the prison address and would perhaps have to petition it from her home address (see link and section at the end of this reply). I actually think she WOULD be allowed to petition it and would, presumably, need to be escorted to a relevant county court to do so. I think it would be her right but I can't say for sure. One possible issue, however, is that you i believe you cannot write off debts for fraud in bankruptcy. Perhaps it is the case that once she has served her sentence the debt is written off anyway. Do you know if this is true? Maybe that creditor does not even have a case, I don't know. It is worth investigating.
One option is to ask the court for the charge hearing date to be postponed whilst you find out how to proceed. This may well be granted as the whole point of the ICO is to stop dealings on the property before the full charge hearing date.
Eseentially, though, your wife would need to go bankrupt in order for you to buy her beneficial interest in the property. She would, indeed, have to have a bankruptcy order made against her.
_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/casehelpmanual/A/AmendDescription.htm
Scroll down to this section;
b Inclusion of a prison address or similar for the bankrupt.
Where the official receiver receives notice of a bankruptcy order including a prison address, he/she should immediately refer it back to the court for amendment. The address should not be mentioned in the Gazette or in any subsequent notices, so as to avoid causing any embarrassment, particularly as the bankrupt may have since been released from prison.
This is equally valid in the case of a battered wife or a witness in protective custody, for instance, where their location should not be advertised. Any matters relating to this should be brought to the attention of the examiner. |
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My wife currently owes a creditor £200,000.
