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shelleyandrew76
New Member
84 Posts |
 Posted - 10 August 2009 : 23:50:47
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Hello everyone.
I havent been on here for a while and feel quite bad about it. As just before going bankrupt I was on here all the time and everyone was so helpful - thank you all for that. It's been over 2 months now and things are slowly settling down. However, the OR wants to take my husbands car and we are very upset about it. The car is only worth £1500 and although he doesnt need it all the time for work - only when hes at home, I need it all the time. I have 2 boys from my first marriage and we live around 230 miles away from their dad. I moved here to be with my current husband and every 2 weeks we meet half way (230 mile) round trip. We have been doing this since September 2005. My husband also has a son from his 1st marriage and we travel half way to get him around 3 times a year too. If we lose the car, we will not be able to carry out our duties to our children.
We are fighting the decision and have a court hearing on 30th September. My husband wont be here so I have to go on his behalf.
Does anyone know how likely it will be for us to keep the car? Surely keeping a family together is considered essential not a convenience in having a car as stated by the OR - I definately dont see a 230 mile round trip every other weekend a conveinence - it is my duty to my children who I moved away from their dad.
Any helpful response will be gratefully appreciated.
Thank you. |
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
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gettingoutofdebt
forum expert
2418 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 08:05:45
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Hi Shelley,
It sounds pretty harsh that the OR is taking your car but the OR may think that you can take public transport to take your children to see their father or that their father can come and pick up the kids even though it would be a long trip.
Have you asked the OR whether you can 'buy' the car from them? Sometimes you can make an offer (not the full value) on the car as this would save the OR money on picking the car up, auction fees, etc. Even if you don't have any spare cash it may be worth checking whether the OR would allow this and seeing if a friend would lend you this money.
I haven't heard of anyone else going to court over the car but one of the professionals may have experience of this.
The link from debtinfo mentions:
"In the case of a claim for exemption to meet domestic needs the official receiver must be satisfied that the motor vehicle is necessary to the extent that no practical alternative exists, to meet a genuine need and not merely a matter of convenience"
I think the important words are 'no practical alternative exists'. If the children's father can't pick them up are you 'practically' able to take them half way via public transport? How much would this cost, how long would it take, etc.? If you are going to fight this then make sure you look into these things and compile costs, time taken, etc. so that you can show the judge that you need the car for practical reasons and not just convenience. Hopefully the judge would understand that the children seeing their father is a necessary part of their upbringing. |
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shelleyandrew76
New Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 12:25:39
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Thank you for your reply and may ask the OR if we can do this. However, I have just read another thread about someone who was worried about losing their car and she said that her mother paid for the car and she is repaying her monthly. The reply was that just because someone is the registered keeper doesnt mean that they actually own the car. I have gone through my old bank statements and have proof that I was given a gift from a friend to buy our car and that I actually paid for the car. Does this now mean that I am the actual owner of the car??
Any response would be greatly received.
Thank you.
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gettingoutofdebt
forum expert
2418 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 13:03:05
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| If someone else bought the car then they could be construed as the owner even if your name is on the V5 document. If someone gives you money and you decide to buy a car with that money then I think you would be considered the owner as you actually bought it although one of the professional IPs may have experience of similar issues. |
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shelleyandrew76
New Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 13:37:41
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Yes someone gave me money to buy a family car that we needed. If this states that I am the actual owner then does that mean the OR CANNOT try and sell this vehicle as it is NOT my husbands to be sold??
Thank you again.
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gettingoutofdebt
forum expert
2418 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 14:02:59
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If you have receipts for the car and show that you paid for it then it is your car and shouldn't be included in your husband's BR.
Did your husband mention this during the OR's interview or has the OR just assumed that your husband is the owner as he is on the V5 document?
The following from the ORs Technical Manual talks about the legal owner:
"31.2.3 Establishing the current keeper
Every vehicle must be registered which gives each vehicle a unique number, the registration number. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) is provided with a vehicles details and a registration document is issued to confirm that registration has taken place.
The vehicle registration document V5C shows details of the vehicle and its current registered keeper. The registered keeper is the person who keeps the vehicle on a public road and is not necessarily the owner and this document is not proof of ownership. In the absence of the vehicle registration document the official receiver can establish the current registered keeper by submitting DVLA form VQ4 to the DVLA, Swansea SA99 1AJ, there is no fee payable for this service. A more detailed list of registered keepers of any vehicle, with copies of all transfer records, can be obtained free of charge by writing to Vehicle Record Enquiries, Vehicle Customer Services DVLA, Swansea SA99 1AJ."
The important section is:
"The registered keeper is the person who keeps the vehicle on a public road and is not necessarily the owner and this document is not proof of ownership."
It may be worth contacting the OR before the court date and mentioning that you bought the car and then providing them any receipts/bank statements that show the money for the car came from your account. |
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shelleyandrew76
New Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 14:16:21
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I just spoke to someone at the OR office and he was very rude - thankfully he's not my OR. He has told me that whoever owns the car it will be sold anyway. Is this correct?? My husband is in full-time employment and I only receive benefits. To date the OR has taken my husbands Life Insurance Policy and now the car (which apparently does not belong to him). They have tried to take nothing from me - is this normal and if I let them know the car is actually mine - will they try to take it from me?
Many thanks.
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gettingoutofdebt
forum expert
2418 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 15:29:39
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On the whole ORs are decent, understanding people however from some of the stories on this and other forums it looks like not all of them are. It also wouldn't surprise me if they are set some sort of targets in the way that some of them try to get as much money for IPAs. etc.
If you are the owner of the car and you are not BR then the OR cannot take the car. From their own manual it states that the person on the V5 is not necessarily the owner.
If you want to keep the car it looks like you are going to have to fight this all the way. Go back over your bank statements and find the statement that shows that the money for the car was taken from your account. If you have any receipts for the purchase showing your name on the receipt or anything else then copy this as well. Send all of this to the OR (recorded delivery) and quote the passage from the manual that I put a couple of posts ago explaining to them that you are the owner of the car and not your husband. Also mention to them that you are not BR and are volunteering this information prior to the court hearing to save everyone the time/expense of having to go to court over this issue. Finish the letter saying that you would like a written response from the OR within 14/21 days stating that the OR has received the letter and whether they still believe that your husband is still the legal owner. You then have some correspondence to/from the OR that you can also take to court if the hearing goes ahead to show that you are doing everything to show the OR that you are the legal owner even though you are not BR so not legally obliged to provide this information.
You could also ask the OR how they have come to the conclusion that your husband is the legal owner of the car. Have they only looked at the V5 document or something else?
If they still don't allow you to keep the car and don't agree that you are the legal owner then you will have to take all of the information to the court and show the judge that you are the legal owner. |
Edited by - gettingoutofdebt on 11 August 2009 15:30:46 |
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debtinfo
forum expert
2826 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 18:58:21
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| hi if you are not bankrupt and you own the car, then it is not up to the or to decide who gets to keep the car as it will not be an asset in the bankruptcy, he key is to show that the non bankrupt person is the owner |
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shelleyandrew76
New Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 19:21:22
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Thank you all so much for your comments - but you obviously didnt read it correct at the start. We both went bankrupt in June - so basically the information you have given suggests that either way they will take the car. We are going to fight this all the way. I have 4 children and live in a small town where I need a car to get about. Also my children need to see their dad and I do an essential journey every 2 weeks so my boys can spend weekends with him. If at the court hearing they still want to take our car - then I will take it further if we can. How the hell am I supposed to tell my boys that they cant see their dad again because we dont have a car anymore - it's going to kill them and me.
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RHB
Senior Member
1159 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 19:23:13
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| The original post talked about her husbands car & maybe this is how it was presented at on the SOA & interview? |
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shelleyandrew76
New Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 19:31:22
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When my husband and I filled in our bankruptcy forms we just assumed that the car was his as he is named as the keeper. But it has been bought to our attention that this is not necessary the case.
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gettingoutofdebt
forum expert
2418 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 19:48:42
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| It would probably be worth writing a letter to the OR and advising them that you have spoken to an Insolvency Practitioner and been advised that the owner of the car is normally considered to be the purchaser of the car rather than the person listed on the V5 document. You could then mention that you purchased the car and that you are currently gathering the proof (receipt/bank statement) of purchase. Sending a letter to clarify the ownership may mean that the OR would not bother with the car any more and may save you a court hearing. |
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shelleyandrew76
New Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 20:48:36
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Thank you gettingoutofdebt for your responses. I will write a letter tomorrow and include the bank statement I have showing that I paid for the car. Just hope that they wont bother with the car anymore. But have doubts seeing as I went bankrupt too when my husband does. The only difference is that he works and I dont. Fingers crossed all the way.
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Skippy
forum expert
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2009 : 20:50:10
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Good luck, I hope you can keep the car. Just a word of advice - send the letter and statements Recorded or Special Delivery to make sure you're covered and they can't say they haven't received it.
Tomorrow is a mystery, yesterday is history, today is the present, a gift to make the most of.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.bankruptcyhelp.org.uk/
25 IPA payments made, 11 to go - on the home straight! |
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If we lose the car
